What I don't like

n7axw wrote:I would be more impressed with patriotism if it had less to do with cheerleading, flag waving and uniforms and more to do with improving our communities. Most of the most fervent "patriots"I know sit on their arses rather than lending a helping hand.

Don

And I would be more impressed if there remained one single standard of patriotism rather than different groups defining it to meet their own standards.

KNick wrote:

n7axw wrote:I would be more impressed with patriotism if it had less to do with cheerleading, flag waving and uniforms and more to do with improving our communities. Most of the most fervent "patriots"I know sit on their arses rather than lending a helping hand.

Don

And I would be more impressed if there remained one single standard of patriotism rather than different groups defining it to meet their own standards.

I'm not sure there ever has been one standard, but today's divisiveness verges on the absurd.

A patriot and a racist meet to discuss their differences.

The patriot says, "I fight for colors."
The racist says, "I do too."

The racist says, "We burn the cross."
The patriot says, "We cross, to burn."

The patriot says, "I fight for my country."
The racist says, "I fight against my country."

The patriot says, "I conquer, rape and pilfer."
The racist says, "I do too, just here in the states."

The patriot says, "I fight for ideals, and it is all recorded for posterity."
The racist says, "I fight because someone else had the idea, and it's all recorded in the history."

The patriot says, "I fight for the American flag."
The racist says, "Now that's where I draw the line, I fight for the confederate flag."

The racist says, "I ain't living next to no Jews, Blacks or shades."
The patriot says, "I shot you when you drew the line."

n7axw wrote:I would be more impressed with patriotism if it had less to do with cheerleading, flag waving and uniforms and more to do with improving our communities. Most of the most fervent "patriots"I know sit on their arses rather than lending a helping hand.

Don

Too often too darn true. Exceptions? Of course. But too much just plain mean-spiritedness swaggering around waving flags and ignoring communities and vets, or worse, actively jabbering against helping and ridiculing anyone who tries..

Why am I getting reminded on Elizabeth Moon's Vatta Series when Ky and Stella are discussing things? Vatta and the relationship to Slotter Key government in particular.

Have a good day,
T2M

PS We really are getting way too much into current politics for this area, IMO.

Michael Riddell wrote:Lets just say that nationalism and patriotism are viewed with a certain degree of suspicion on this side of the Atlantic. In the context of European history, they have a tendency to get lots and lots of people killed.

Hans is fairly typical of most Germans - coming to grips with the toxic legacy of Prussian Militarism and Nazism has left modern Germans with a bone-deep suspicion and fear of patriotism and nationalism. They know how easily they can be warped.

British hyperpatriotism died on the Somme and the mud of Passchendaele.

Mike.

You got my intention pretty well.
And yes I grew up with the idea that patriotism is something bad. That is <imho> a lesson we learned out of our history.
Don't get me wrong, I love to live in Germany and I will root for our football team in Brasil but that has nothing to do with:
"Deutschland, Deutschland über alles..."
(rougly translated with: Germany is better then anyone)
I also love to live in a area, where the majority of the citizens, decided to live in a democracy and a freedom people never had before in history.
Despite all of its failures and odd things going on. But I do know that there is no place all over this world where it is perfect, or even just slightly better.

@t2m

PS We really are getting way too much into current politics for this area, IMO.

Quite correct, but to understand a possible future, like the one D.W. describes, we got to see the society we livein right now.
And this is one thing I really like in the Harrington books. He describes how the future can be. I a lot of SciFi books the future is just bad. In D.W. future, the world (Galaxy) is not a perfect place, but it is, more or less, a modified society.
Especially the way the SL is going in his story, seems pretty plausible.
It looks <imho> the way any empire in our history went. Rome for example, thick, fat not moving anymore - a state of just 'bread and games'.

Hans wrote:...
I love to live in Germany and I will root for our football team in Brasil but that has nothing to do with:
"Deutschland, Deutschland über alles..."
(rougly translated with: Germany is better then anyone)
...

How about translating it as "we believe in German exceptionalism"!

jgnfld wrote:

Hans wrote:...
I love to live in Germany and I will root for our football team in Brasil but that has nothing to do with:
"Deutschland, Deutschland über alles..."
(rougly translated with: Germany is better then anyone)
...

How about translating it as "we believe in German exceptionalism"!

Or there's the section from Wikipedia, "German grammar is sufficiently precise to distinguish über alles, meaning above everything (for me), from über allen, meaning above everyone else"?

PalmerSperry wrote:How about translating it as "we believe in German exceptionalism"!

Or there's the section from Wikipedia, "German grammar is sufficiently precise to distinguish über alles, meaning above everything (for me), from über allen, meaning above everyone else"?[/quote]

Ole! Let's go Korinthenkacken*

* I let you search for the correct translation of this word
To all the Germans - pls don't help

Hans wrote:
Ole! Let's go Korinthenkacken*

* I let you search for the correct translation of this word
To all the Germans - pls don't help

I believe that "anal retentive pedant" comes close?

Mike.