Honorverse timeline getting back on track?

Just a little bit of speculation.

Remember, years ago, when Eric Flint created Cachat and screwed up RFC's carefully crafted timeline, by bringing Mesa into the spotlight? Collateral effects included Honor NOT dying at the Battle of Manticore.

RFC stated in the book's preface (it was in Storm from the Shadows) that he had originally intended to carry the story through the POV of Honor's children, likely implying a timeskip of around 20-25 years so they grew up and passed through Saganami Island, at wich point (I suppose) the Mesan Alignment would come into play, and the Solly League would get royally screwed.

Now I'm thinking (and this is an enormous WAG) that this appears to be an excellent time for the timeskip. Consider the following:

1- The Manticore-Haven war is over.
2- The Talbott Quadrant has stabilized. The next books in that subseries (if any) will probably revolve around the situation with the League's leftovers.
3- The Wages of Sin subseries appears to have reached its conclusion, given that Mesa has been taken out.
2- The GA has pretty much the premier warfighting fleet in known space, so both Haven and Manticore are (pretty much) secure and can focus on their own domestic matters.
3- The Solly league is coming apart at the seams. Soon the place will become a living hell, making the former Silesia seem like a sandbox scuffle. It won't be pretty, and it WON'T be QUICK.
4- The MAlignment has been fingered (and, to the devil its due, the discovery itself was a fluke), but they have retreated on their own terms, meaning that they will have done a good job of sanitizing their old haunts. I highly doubt they left behind any useful scrap of information. Disinformation is far more likely, IMHO.
5- The discovery, however, will have to make the Malignment top leaders more wary: the GA will be on the lookout for any new government sprouting up in the wake of the League's fall, especially any government or alliance that seems to coalesce a bit too quickly and smoothly. No fast-laning the Factor's alliance.

So, we have peace in the home front, the barbarians are (or will soon be) running amok beyond the borders, and the MAlign has bolted for its own hole, and will probably move more cautiously in the near future.

Thoughts, anyone?

I can see how RFC eventually reaches that point, but I think there is at least a book or two before that point is reached. There are still quite a few loose ends to tie up such as the actual collapse of the SL, the occupation of Mesa, what happens to those five Solarian analysts who have a clue, etc.

I've seen several comments in other forums where the poster's bemoan the fact that the series has devolved to various meetings and conferences with little to no space battles anymore, and I can see the next book being much of the same as RFC wraps thing up and preps for a time jump.

The thing is, I'm not sure a time jump is necessary, there have been enough new characters introduced (Abigail, Helen, Aivers, Oversteegan, etc.) to carry on the story without the requisite jump in time. Something to think about.

peke wrote:Just a little bit of speculation.

Remember, years ago, when Eric Flint created Cachat and screwed up RFC's carefully crafted timeline, by bringing Mesa into the spotlight? Collateral effects included Honor NOT dying at the Battle of Manticore.

RFC stated in the book's preface (it was in Storm from the Shadows) that he had originally intended to carry the story through the POV of Honor's children, likely implying a timeskip of around 20-25 years so they grew up and passed through Saganami Island, at wich point (I suppose) the Mesan Alignment would come into play, and the Solly League would get royally screwed.

Now I'm thinking (and this is an enormous WAG) that this appears to be an excellent time for the timeskip. Consider the following:

1- The Manticore-Haven war is over.
2- The Talbott Quadrant has stabilized. The next books in that subseries (if any) will probably revolve around the situation with the League's leftovers.
3- The Wages of Sin subseries appears to have reached its conclusion, given that Mesa has been taken out.
2- The GA has pretty much the premier warfighting fleet in known space, so both Haven and Manticore are (pretty much) secure and can focus on their own domestic matters.
3- The Solly league is coming apart at the seams. Soon the place will become a living hell, making the former Silesia seem like a sandbox scuffle. It won't be pretty, and it WON'T be QUICK.
4- The MAlignment has been fingered (and, to the devil its due, the discovery itself was a fluke), but they have retreated on their own terms, meaning that they will have done a good job of sanitizing their old haunts. I highly doubt they left behind any useful scrap of information. Disinformation is far more likely, IMHO.
5- The discovery, however, will have to make the Malignment top leaders more wary: the GA will be on the lookout for any new government sprouting up in the wake of the League's fall, especially any government or alliance that seems to coalesce a bit too quickly and smoothly. No fast-laning the Factor's alliance.

So, we have peace in the home front, the barbarians are (or will soon be) running amok beyond the borders, and the MAlign has bolted for its own hole, and will probably move more cautiously in the near future.

Thoughts, anyone?

I don't see a time jump.

Granted, all of that is true. The MAlign still has the problem of shepherding the fragments of the SL into the arms of the Renaissance Faction, and they have this fleet of Detweiller class spider-drive SDs to hammer anyone who gets in the way.

Neither Haven nor Manticore is going to forgive or forget. Nor is Beowulf. Not only that, if events on Mesa wind up going in a direction I think at least possible, they're going to be part of the hunting pack.

JohnRoth wrote:I don't see a time jump.

Granted, all of that is true. The MAlign still has the problem of shepherding the fragments of the SL into the arms of the Renaissance Faction, and they have this fleet of Detweiller class spider-drive SDs to hammer anyone who gets in the way.

Neither Haven nor Manticore is going to forgive or forget. Nor is Beowulf. Not only that, if events on Mesa wind up going in a direction I think at least possible, they're going to be part of the hunting pack.

No, they won't forgive nor forget: after all, they know for a fact that they're on the Alignment's hit list.

However, after more than twenty year of near-continuous war (and the even longer military buildup that preceded it), there's going to be a lot of pressure from a war-weary population (not the whole population, but a significant fraction) that will claim for an end to the wartime economy policies. The GA, right now, is as close to unbeatable as it can be.

As for the Sollies, I doubt they will be able to prosecute a war with the GA. What with member planets starting to secede in droves, the remaining Solly fleet (Frontier fleet, probably) will be too busy keeping whatever peace it can. "Lots of forest fires, and not nearly enough people to piss on them" is a fair summation of the coming debacle.

peke wrote:However, after more than twenty year of near-continuous war (and the even longer military buildup that preceded it), there's going to be a lot of pressure from a war-weary population (not the whole population, but a significant fraction) that will claim for an end to the wartime economy policies. The GA, right now, is as close to unbeatable as it can be.

Which is exactly why 'right now' is the time to act, because that's not a permanent status. The Manties have got nothing the Sollies can't duplicate if they throw enough resources and brainpower at them. And some time. -- They've got the first two. If the Manties piss away their advantage by giving them the time, they'll pay dearly.

peke wrote: As for the Sollies, I doubt they will be able to prosecute a war with the GA. What with member planets starting to secede in droves, the remaining Solly fleet (Frontier fleet, probably) will be too busy keeping whatever peace it can. "Lots of forest fires, and not nearly enough people to piss on them" is a fair summation of the coming debacle.

So far member planets are seceding by ones. And if the League loses half its members, it'll still be the 400-kg gorilla in the neighborhood. The Manties can't afford to simply leave the League alone and hope it'll melt down.

Bill Woods wrote:So far member planets are seceding by ones. And if the League loses half its members, it'll still be the 400-kg gorilla in the neighborhood. The Manties can't afford to simply leave the League alone and hope it'll melt down.

Some of us have a feeling that the SLN operation against Beowulf will change the dynamic quite a bit. We'll see.

I think we'll see a time jump after the end of the Solarian war and the breakup of the League.

Bill Woods wrote: Which is exactly why 'right now' is the time to act, because that's not a permanent status. The Manties have got nothing the Sollies can't duplicate if they throw enough resources and brainpower at them. And some time. -- They've got the first two. If the Manties piss away their advantage by giving them the time, they'll pay dearly.

Bill is absolutely right. The last thing the GA should do is rest on the laurels of its overwhelming technical superiority. They need to attack, and do it now, while they still have the advantage. The more they wait, the more time the SL has to start trying to catch up. The GA can't - and, dare I say, won't - let that happen.

Think about it. Elizabeth is out to get the MAlign because of all the people they caused her to lose during the M-H war. Also the Yawata Strike, which... yeah. Eloise is out to get them for the same reason as Elizabeth, plus Javier (*sob*). Tom's out to get them for the same reasons as Eloise, and also because they pissed off Honor. Allen Higgins is out to get them because of the Yawata Strike, with the additional impetus that he was commanding Home Fleet and could do nothing to save his navy or his star nation. Lester and Hamish have their own axes to grind and will follow Tom and Honor anywhere, and Honor? Well. We all know what she has against the Alignment, don't we?

Throw in the Cachat/Zilwicki team, the hotbed of tactical and diplomatic genius that is the Talbott Quadrant, the entire nation of Torch, and a really goddamn angry planetful of Graysons, and they have every reason in the world to crush the SL and the Alignment under their collective boot heel as soon as humanly possible.

The conferences and the background sections as well as the internal thoughts of a number of characters are important to both set the stage for future action and provide the frame of reference for the characters and the Star Nations actions and policies.

Unresolved things?

Like the Alignment taking another swipe at Torch?

Like what is the build-up and then the Solly action with Beowulf and the initial effects it has on the GA and SL?

Like Erwhon and the Maya Sector dealing both with the SL and its probable attempts to make some kind of end run around Manticore?

Like the Detweilers plans to screw with Beowulf plus shove the SL/SLN into problems and to start the process of getting the RF rolling if only in the background?

Like what are the sizes, capabilities of the Lenny Dets and what is the plan (now) for using them?

Can Manticore and Grayson both rebuild the systems manufacturing infrastructure AND find a viable detection system against the Spider drive ships? You know they are going to be smashed again if they can't come up with (probably both) detection and better protection for ALL of the system's infrastructure.

What are the Aldermani up to?

What is going to happen at Mesa with 10th Fleet, a potential nacient Seccy government and all the tons of information and problems that are going to be showing up in Mesa?

What are the start lines of the SL fracture and what is going to happen with things that will get going outside the RF like the several of Beowul's trading partners and neighbors that are apparently looking to shif the balance in trade and other things?

What is going to happen to things we have seen mentioned like Midguard, Matapan, The Judean League and other existing groups as far as taking action or starting to change things in the anticipation or as a result of what is happening to the SL?

Just how badly are the Mandarins going to make things in what is becoming an increaseingly futile struggle to maintain their positions (and save their lives plus fortunes) as things go to Hell?

Need I go on? Not to mention the careers, actions and lives of major characters. Could take six books or more.

YES!!!!

I can't see a time jump for all of the reasons mentioned.

I didn't see anyone mention the Ridgeway example from the previous government; they wasted the advantage they had!

No way that's going to happen again.