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Caliphate of Zanzibar

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Re: Caliphate of Zanzibar
Post by roseandheather   » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:46 pm

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viciokie wrote:My own personal take on this issue , is that any woman who follows any kind of faith has lost her mind. Reason being is the vast majority of faith's seem to have a overabundance of degradation focused on women.


Oh? Really? What part of "Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and love thy neighbor as thyself" is degrading to women, exactly? Since that's the entire essence of Christianity in one sentence, and all.

I have my own fair share of issues with not-so-Saint Paul, but don't you fucking dare condemn a faith - any faith - without understanding it. Which you clearly don't.

If there's one thing I detest more than those who pervert my faith to their own bigoted ends, it's self-righteous atheists who pat themselves on the back for being "tolerant" while telling the world that anyone who adheres to any sort of religion, especially the Abrahamic ones, automatically agrees with all the worst examples of those faiths.

So sit down, shut up, and don't talk about shit you don't understand. Got it? :x :evil:
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Re: Caliphate of Zanzibar
Post by Daryl   » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:22 am

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roseandheather, you do seem upset. I was brought up in the Christian faith and agree that "Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and love thy neighbor as thyself" is one of the tenets. However during my seven years in a High Church Anglican boarding school, the words "The Bible says --" ending up chilling me to the bone due to the degrading and painful punishments that were dished out after they were spoken to justify atrocities against innocent children.
Over the nearly fifty years since I have managed to adjust and I now cope pretty well, even have friends who profess to be Christians. I'm sure that Christ was a good guy who had an excellent moral code, but many who claim to speak for him since have twisted the message to suit their nasty personal agendas.
I believe that many active atheists have become so due to bad experiences with organised religion.
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Re: Caliphate of Zanzibar
Post by MaxxQ   » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:06 am

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Daryl wrote:I believe that many active atheists have become so due to bad experiences with organised religion.


<raises hand>
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Re: Caliphate of Zanzibar
Post by Donnachaidh   » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:28 am

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roseandheather, you seem to have overlooked this statement viciokie made before any other statement:

viciokie wrote:My own personal take on this issue


And this statement made later:

viciokie wrote:I wont force my views on anyone else


It is not right and unfair of the "self-righteous atheists" to assume everyone who adheres to any sort of faith agrees with the worst of that faith. But you've done the exact same thing with an atheist.
Last edited by Donnachaidh on Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Caliphate of Zanzibar
Post by namelessfly   » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:56 pm

namelessfly

MaxxQ wrote:
Daryl wrote:I believe that many active atheists have become so due to bad experiences with organised religion.


<raises hand>



So if you have had a "bad experience" with someone of a particular ethnic group you would feel justified in being hostile to everyone in that ethnic group?
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Re: Caliphate of Zanzibar
Post by roseandheather   » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:48 pm

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Donnachaidh wrote:roseandheather, you seem to have overlooked this statement viciokie made before any other statement:

viciokie wrote:My own personal take on this issue


And this statement made later:

viciokie wrote:I wont force my views on anyone else


It is not right and unfair of the "self-righteous atheists" to assume everyone who adheres to any sort of faith agrees with the worst of that faith. But you've done the exact same thing with an atheist.


Given that viciokie also said they believed that any woman who adhered to a faith had lost her mind, I think I'm justified in my anger. I wasn't assuming anything, because I didn't have to. Their contempt was open and unapologetic.

Perhaps I did speak a little too harshly, but I make no apologies for the sentiment. Following up "you've lost your mind" with "...but I won't force my opinion on anyone!" doesn't make those words any less hurtful or rude. In fact, it makes them more so.

I've never claimed the Church as an institution was perfect. Of course it isn't. But to condemn an entire faith for the actions of some of its followers is inexcusable. Namelessfly has it right.
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Re: Caliphate of Zanzibar
Post by MaxxQ   » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:44 pm

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Daryl wrote:I believe that many active atheists have become so due to bad experiences with organised religion.


namelessfly wrote:
MaxxQ wrote:<raises hand>



So if you have had a "bad experience" with someone of a particular ethnic group you would feel justified in being hostile to everyone in that ethnic group?


Where was "hostile" mentioned? All I see in what I quoted is "active atheists", although admittedly, I'm not very active. More apathetic towards any religion.

I was only raising my hand to the "many [...] atheists have become so due to bad experiences with organised religion" bit.

I was raised catholic, but by the age of 13, I decided that I wanted no part of it anymore, and since I'm an equal-opportunity kind of guy, I decided that *all* religions were a waste of my time.

That said, it's an apples and oranges comparison. People can *choose* to follow whatever religion they want - those of differing ethnicities are born that way. They have no hope at all of forcing me (or even convincing me through gentle persuasion) to change my ethnicity, whereas those of faith can certainly *try*, and in some cases, may even succeed (but not with me).
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Re: Caliphate of Zanzibar
Post by KNick   » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:50 pm

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The right of freedom of religion also means the right to freedom from religion. Your religion is right for you, but as another lapsed Catholic, it isn't right for me.
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Re: Caliphate of Zanzibar
Post by Michael Everett   » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:59 am

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Regarding religions, anyone else find it darkly amusing that any religious figure who "understands the mind of god" discovers that god has exactly the same biases and preconceptions that they do?

How many preachers stand up and say "I have had a religious experience, allowing me to understand God's will, and I have been totally wrong in my stance on women's rights/abortion/alcohol/gay marriage etc"?

The cynical among us would think that they mistake the echo of their preaching for the mountain of god.
Apologies for the bad metaphor

Awaiting further comments.
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Re: Caliphate of Zanzibar
Post by Daryl   » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:55 am

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Slight clarification. I didn't say that I was an "active atheist", just that some people are.
I'm not sure what I am, although I do know that bad things done to me and others I know in the name of Christianity have ensured I'm not of that faith. I also concede that had I lived in a sharia law Muslim state I would have probably had even worse experiences.
Naturally there are many good people among those who follow all of the various creeds. Good luck to you, but the door to organised religion is closed in my case.
I have never been automatically hostile to people who profess to be "good Christians", judging all people by how they treat me. It is unfortunate though, that some (far from all) who openly proclaim a strong faith have in my personal life experience turned out to be not nice people. Talking with social acquaintances it was interesting to note that many avoided businesses that had the little fish symbol in their advertising, because of bad previous experiences.
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