Are the Gbaba expanding?

I realize that the Gbaba to the best of the Terran federation knowledge do not develop new techs but do they use the tech that they have to expand?

And if so how far would they have expanded since the fall of the federation?

If they don't expand would they have even replaced the handful of colonies that the Federation destroyed?

Alistair wrote:I realize that the Gbaba to the best of the Terran federation knowledge do not develop new techs but do they use the tech that they have to expand?

And if so how far would they have expanded since the fall of the federation?

If they don't expand would they have even replaced the handful of colonies that the Federation destroyed?

I think that they would likely have to expand even if it isnt by much unless they are in an almost perfect balance between births and deaths which to me seems highly unlikely.

Its a very interesting question though, are they truly xenophobic or do they just not want to risk the competition? perhaps they are an extremely expansionist race that needs the room?

So little was known even by the Federation that getting a real grasp of their society is difficult to picture, but there are so many possibilities for their actions that go beyond pure xenophobia that the Federation depicts there actions to be.

For all we know the area of the galaxy that the Federation and the former race that they discovered had been made extinct could be some sort of Sacred Lands to the Gbaba that any trespass leads to a Holy war against the perpetrator.

It depends on what the Gbaba are. Given that they have had no technical innovations in 100 centuries, we can assume they are a stagnant culture and thus non-expanding. My guess is that the Gbaba are similar to the Aku'Ultan from the Dahak series. If that is the case, they do not expand for the sake of expansion, though they are probably trying to make up for battlefield losses. I think it is unlikely that they will expand beyond their pre-war strength given what little we do know about them. Besides, they reduce every culture they meet to rubble, so there is no point to expanding because there is nothing to expand to.

Agree that it depends on "what the Gbaba are".

My speculation is that some time in the remote past, the Gbaba (or their leadership) decided that they had created a "perfect" social order and took step to ensure that they never changed from that "perfect" social order.

The lack of technical innovations are IMO only part of it.

Their past leadership may have instituted a system of "mind control" of all elements of their society so that none of the Gbaba question their society and never act to change their society from the pattern created so long ago.

Their destroying of other civilizations likely plays into this.

The Social Engineers realized that other civilizations would threaten their "perfect" social order so they programmed the Gbaba to destroy other civilizations when they found them.

There may be periodical sweeps of star systems outside of the regions of space they control or at least they set up "watch posts" to detect high tech civilizations outside of their territory.

As for the question of their expansion, they may not expand their territory until they "think" it's necessary.

It is possible that if a high tech civilization strongly resists them, then the Gbaba may expand their numbers and territory in response.

It's hard to say if the resistance of the Terran Federation was strong enough to trigger further expansion of the Gbaba numbers and territory.

Only David Weber knows for sure and I suspect he won't tell us.

eldrwyrm wrote:It depends on what the Gbaba are. Given that they have had no technical innovations in 100 centuries, we can assume they are a stagnant culture and thus non-expanding. My guess is that the Gbaba are similar to the Aku'Ultan from the Dahak series. If that is the case, they do not expand for the sake of expansion, though they are probably trying to make up for battlefield losses. I think it is unlikely that they will expand beyond their pre-war strength given what little we do know about them. Besides, they reduce every culture they meet to rubble, so there is no point to expanding because there is nothing to expand to.

They have deployed no technical innovations in some millennia. They may perfectly well have made technical advances, but as they have in hand a large stock of warships, which in fact do lead to victory whenever used, including smiting the pesky Terrans, they may see no reason to deploy those advances. It may also be that they are the Empire of the Local Group of galaxies, the area near earth is an extreme backwater, so it therefore has only backward warships.

eldrwyrm wrote:It depends on what the Gbaba are. Given that they have had no technical innovations in 100 centuries, we can assume they are a stagnant culture and thus non-expanding. My guess is that the Gbaba are similar to the Aku'Ultan from the Dahak series. If that is the case, they do not expand for the sake of expansion, though they are probably trying to make up for battlefield losses. I think it is unlikely that they will expand beyond their pre-war strength given what little we do know about them. Besides, they reduce every culture they meet to rubble, so there is no point to expanding because there is nothing to expand to.

I think that the Gbaba as a race either slowly expand territorially or they are aggressive explorers, although what they do with the territory thus explored I couldn't say.

Are they expanding militarily? I highly doubt it. They aren't going to expand their military significantly until they face a threat, hence the large moth-balled fleets. Keep in mind that new construction was also found (if I'm remembering right) with the same tech as the older vessels. Once a threat appears my guess is they produce warships like crazy until the threat is extinguished and then mothball significant numbers of warships that are no longer needed.

Darman wrote:I think that the Gbaba as a race either slowly expand territorially or they are aggressive explorers, although what they do with the territory thus explored I couldn't say.

Are they expanding militarily? I highly doubt it. They aren't going to expand their military significantly until they face a threat, hence the large moth-balled fleets. Keep in mind that new construction was also found (if I'm remembering right) with the same tech as the older vessels. Once a threat appears my guess is they produce warships like crazy until the threat is extinguished and then mothball significant numbers of warships that are no longer needed.

Well, it was the Gbaba finding the Federation at Crestwell's Star at the start of OAR - so I would say that the Gbaba definitly patrol the volume around their world.

However, also in AOR, when talking about the Gbaba reaction to the Federation, Thiessen says "Until the next poor dumb suckers come stumbling into them".

That would imply that it was the Federation that encountered the Gbaba, rather then the other way around....

David Weber talks about how the Gbaba "found" the Federation in topic "What drew the Gbaba attack in the first place..." here: http://www.davidweber.net/faqs/index/series:6/page:2

The short answer is that the Federation knew about the Gbaba thanks to the discovery of several high tech civilizations that had been destroyed.

The Federation wasn't sure about who/what destroyed them until the Gbaba attacked Crestwell's Star.

The Federation wasn't sure if the Gbaba discovered the Federation because the Gbaba periodically sent starships into the region that the Federation was in or because the Federation starships had been detected by sensor stations left by the Gbaba.

MWadwell wrote:Well, it was the Gbaba finding the Federation at Crestwell's Star at the start of OAR - so I would say that the Gbaba definitly patrol the volume around their world.

However, also in AOR, when talking about the Gbaba reaction to the Federation, Thiessen says "Until the next poor dumb suckers come stumbling into them".

That would imply that it was the Federation that encountered the Gbaba, rather then the other way around....

DrakBibliophile wrote:

David Weber talks about how the Gbaba "found" the Federation in topic "What drew the Gbaba attack in the first place..." here: http://www.davidweber.net/faqs/index/series:6/page:2

The short answer is that the Federation knew about the Gbaba thanks to the discovery of several high tech civilizations that had been destroyed.

The Federation wasn't sure about who/what destroyed them until the Gbaba attacked Crestwell's Star.

The Federation wasn't sure if the Gbaba discovered the Federation because the Gbaba periodically sent starships into the region that the Federation was in or because the Federation starships had been detected by sensor stations left by the Gbaba.

I realize this is a different question, but what do you think would happen if the Orbital Bombardment System detected a Gbaba scout ship?

And, if Merlin was truly desperate to disable the OBS, would it ever make sense to try to use the assault shuttle to spoof the OBS into thinking the Gbaba were there?

My own thought is that they either don't have programming to handle it or just give up, because I think there wouldn't be any alternative. But I really don't know.

-- Bob G

robertamgottlieb wrote:
I realize this is a different question, but what do you think would happen if the Orbital Bombardment System detected a Gbaba scout ship?

And, if Merlin was truly desperate to disable the OBS, would it ever make sense to try to use the assault shuttle to spoof the OBS into thinking the Gbaba were there?

My own thought is that they either don't have programming to handle it or just give up, because I think there wouldn't be any alternative. But I really don't know.

-- Bob G

Not very much - waken up whatever is below the Temple at most.
Maybe not even that; OWL's exploratory SNARC was shot down without provoking that kind of reaction. Maybe it was shut down and just destroyed as a hazard to navigation though rather than being recognised for what it was.

Seems very likely that, apart from protecting itself from immediate attack, the OBS is focussed entirely on the planet and affairs down there. Personnel and resources were limited after all. Anything they could have constructed wouldn't have phased the Gbaba, anyway, and arguably space borne structures were the things most likely to attract the Gbaba, so the crew would want to limit them to the essentials.