Sex Slaves Hidden Punishment

How do we know that the Mesan sex slave lines have elevated libido? The only one that figures in the story, Ginny Usher, is certainly an exhibitionist and a tease, but she's also extremely loyal to Kevin even though she plays the cheating spouse, and she doesn't seem at all put out that she and Victor Cachet are as chaste as the driven snow while they're together.

We've seen one descendent of a Mesan sex slave line, Paulo what-ever-his-name-was, and he certainly doesn't seem to be any of those things. The only thing he actually seems to have inherited was extreme good looks.

Then there's the scene in one of the stories that alludes to the initiation they go through, and what happened to one of the initiators once a couple of escaped sex slaves got their hands on him.

Sex slaves are portrayed as being highly intelligent to the extent of being very dangerous to their owners. Why would that be? The single most important sex organ is the brain. Excessive libido does not do well for clear thinking.

While Manpower does seem to exaggerate how well they can tailor personality, they are not fools. As far as I can tell, the ideal sex slave is there to support cis owner's sexual fantasies, which may or may not involve lots of actual sex. Someone who can afford one can certainly afford to hire or otherwise engage any number of people who will engage in ordinary sex at whim. A Mesan sex slave has to be special to be worth the price and the risk, and that, to me, does not mean a lust-crazed warm body.

JohnRoth wrote:How do we know that the Mesan sex slave lines have elevated libido? The only one that figures in the story, Ginny Usher, is certainly an exhibitionist and a tease, but she's also extremely loyal to Kevin even though she plays the cheating spouse, and she doesn't seem at all put out that she and Victor Cachet are as chaste as the driven snow while they're together.

We know it from the text. In From The Highlands:

Her genotype had been selected and shaped for physical attractiveness, and for as much in the way of libidinal energy and submissiveness as Mesa's gengineers could pinpoint in the genetic code. Which, of course, was not much--especially since the two desired traits tended to be genetically cross-linked with a multitude of opposing characteristics.

So, there is text evidence that Mesa does try to instill higher libidos into sex slaves. (With, at most, modest success.)

Whether Ginny is loyal to Kevin and is chaste with Cachat has little to do with whether she has an elevated libido. Loyalty is unrelated to libido, and elevated libido does not imply an inability to control sexual desires.

SWM wrote:Loyalty is unrelated to libido, and elevated libido does not imply an inability to control sexual desires.

The OPs argument was yes, it does.

MaxxQ wrote:Not that anyone asked for it, but here's my opinion.

Since Mesa genetically engineered an increased libido into its sex slaves, then that means that the slaves were "born" with it already in place. It's as completely natural to them as the "normal" amount of libido is to anyone who *wasn't* genetically engineered for high libido.

It's not like the slaves just suddenly woke up one day ten times as horny as they were before they went to bed. Therefore, they wouldn't be "suffering" from their increased libido, because to them, it's normal.

Don't forget that even normal humans have a wide range of levels of libido, and just like Anton falls on one of the ends of the curve for strong humans (making him stronger than genetically enhanced scrags), so also must many humans have an even higher libido than those who have been *designed* to have a high libido. Occasionally, that results in things like rape, but for the most part, normals can keep themselves under control. I don't see why it would be any different for an engineered sex slave.

Edit: Sorry I missed this post Maxx. This was a very busy weekend. My niece had a piano recital and a yearly festival and parade going on.
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You make a very interesting point Maxx. And I like your slant on things. Actually I considered the very same thing that you are proposing, and after careful consideration I tossed it. The reason is because that stance argues for what I am actually positing. The fact that Mesa's sex slaves may have learned to naturally cope with these elevated levels of normal humans' baseline libido simply implies that there is a problem and they have had to learn to cope. Whether I actually agree with success of any natural coping mechanism is another topic.

Let's examine your gedanken a bit closer. Since Mesa's sex slaves are born with an elevated libido, it is normal to them. Sure it is. Within the population of Mesa's sex slaves a higher than normal human baseline libido is normal, but that normality, consistency if you will, does not infer control. It can be argued that normal Terran humans with an increased libido were born with it, and therefore it is normal to them. It does not infer their control over it.

Don't forget that even normal humans have a wide range of levels of libido, and just like Anton falls on one of the ends of the curve for strong humans (making him stronger than genetically enhanced scrags), so also must many humans have an even higher libido than those who have been *designed* to have a high libido. Occasionally, that results in things like rape, but for the most part, normals can keep themselves under control. I don't see why it would be any different for an engineered sex slave.

Yes, humans have a wide range in lubidinous energy. However, the general consensus does not support that those with these higher levels are in control over it. To the contrary in fact. Governments are considering chemical castration for rapists, to lower their libido because they seem to think that rape is synonymous with an increased libido, or at least lowering the libido will curtail these violent sexual acts.

Poland: Give Rapists Libido-Killing Drugs
Poland's lower house approved legislation Friday that would make it obligatory to chemically castrate offenders who rape children under 15 or close relatives.

The center-right government proposed the bill in response to a series of cases in which fathers sexually abused their daughters. It also raises the maximum prison term for the rape of under-15s to 15 years from 12.

Under the law, approved overwhelmingly by parliament's lower house, people convicted of raping under-15s would be obliged to take drugs intended to control their sexual urges - a practice known as chemical castration.

WINDHOEK – A National Assembly MP has proposed that men convicted of gender-based killings or rape be chemically castrated to inhibit their sexual fantasies.

Alexiah Manombe-Ncube’s remarks in parliament on Tuesday while making her contribution to the motion on gender-based violence caused a stir among some parliamentarians.

“Enough is enough and I therefore take the liberty as a concerned citizen to propose that men who commit gender-based violence be it rape, passion killing, assault with the intent to do grievous bodily harm, be chemically castrated as this will reduce their libido as well as their sexual fantasies,” she said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poland-give ... ing-drugs/
http://www.newera.com.na/2014/04/10/mp- ... n-rapists/

Before anyone commandeers any of the Harrington Treecats' baseball bats and come after me, I am not proposing that I believe these studies have merit. That is for elected officials to decide. I can say that I have a very open mind to it. I am simply proposing that if men who have naturally elevated levels of libido have problems with it, how can I intuitively conceive that unnaturally created humans with unnaturally increased levels of libido won't have problems.

The thing to remember is that none of us are geneticists, so our opinions are just that. Opinions. I'm not so sure geneticists would be able to agree, as this is unprecedented territory. Having said that, it is my opinion that Mesa's sex slaves may suffer a now discussed cruel punishment.

cthia wrote:The thing to remember is that none of us are geneticists, so our opinions are just that. Opinions. I'm not so sure geneticists would be able to agree, as this is unprecedented territory. Having said that, it is my opinion that Mesa's sex slaves may suffer a now discussed cruel punishment.

All of this is basically handwaving, since, at the present time, we don't know how the structure of the brain contributes to personality, and we don't know how the physical genetics contributes to either the structure of the brain or to personality.

The Eric Flint quote that kzt found in From the Highlands is pure handwavium as well. To think that, in 2000 years, geneticists wouldn't have figured out most of this takes a very dim view of progress. E.F. needed a certain set of characteristics to make his view of genetic slavery, the Ballroom and other things work out, so he simply said "this is so."

You want to add a lifetime of sexual frustration to the mix. I'm pointing out that the Mesan geneticists are not that stupid, and neither is Manpower's marketing department. The level of frustration you're suggesting, on a continuing unrelenting basis, leads to insanity.

By the way: the word "punishment" means "the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense." Being born with a certain set of characteristics is not an offense, and birth characteristics are not a penalty given as retribution for an offense.

Yes, you've discussed it. I think your viewpoint is about as likely as Manticore deciding to scrap all of its SDs in favor of a fleet of frigates.

JohnRoth wrote:

cthia wrote:The thing to remember is that none of us are geneticists, so our opinions are just that. Opinions. I'm not so sure geneticists would be able to agree, as this is unprecedented territory. Having said that, it is my opinion that Mesa's sex slaves may suffer a now discussed cruel punishment.

All of this is basically handwaving, since, at the present time, we don't know how the structure of the brain contributes to personality, and we don't know how the physical genetics contributes to either the structure of the brain or to personality.

The Eric Flint quote that kzt found in From the Highlands is pure handwavium as well. To think that, in 2000 years, geneticists wouldn't have figured out most of this takes a very dim view of progress. E.F. needed a certain set of characteristics to make his view of genetic slavery, the Ballroom and other things work out, so he simply said "this is so."

You want to add a lifetime of sexual frustration to the mix. I'm pointing out that the Mesan geneticists are not that stupid, and neither is Manpower's marketing department. The level of frustration you're suggesting, on a continuing unrelenting basis, leads to insanity.

By the way: the word "punishment" means "the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense." Being born with a certain set of characteristics is not an offense, and birth characteristics are not a penalty given as retribution for an offense.

Yes, you've discussed it. I think your viewpoint is about as likely as Manticore deciding to scrap all of its SDs in favor of a fleet of frigates.

Confrontational tone. I pass. Better things to do.