Detweiler Vision vs Beowulf Code: "Right" and "Wrong"

Amaroq wrote:This is a good point. I'm not certain what could be done about it. Honor even mentions to White Haven in IEH that most everyone on Sphinx is a genie because of the locked nature and dominant heritability of the heavy-world genetic mods.

However, your point on overlapping mods potentially interfering with one another has merit. We've already seen just such interference between the Meyerdahl mods and the regen therapies (although there isn't a reproductive component to it).

SWM wrote:
We've already pointed out that the Meyerdahl mods have nothing to do with Honor's problems with regen therapy.

Amaroq wrote:

SWM wrote:
We've already pointed out that the Meyerdahl mods have nothing to do with Honor's problems with regen therapy.

Honor does point out that a majority of people with the mods can't regenerate. Correlation does not imply causation but there is some synergistic effect at work there. Perhaps there are more subtle genetic effects from the mods that can cause conflicts?

jgnfld wrote:I've seen no textev to say it's impossible that Honor/Emily/etc. will never be able to regen. It's more that present techniques do not apply to them.

Amaroq wrote:

SWM wrote:
We've already pointed out that the Meyerdahl mods have nothing to do with Honor's problems with regen therapy.

Honor does point out that a majority of people with the mods can't regenerate. Correlation does not imply causation but there is some synergistic effect at work there. Perhaps there are more subtle genetic effects from the mods that can cause conflicts?

SWM wrote:
Hm. I don't remember that. I can't find that in Ashes of Victory. Is that in a different book?

"We don't talk about it much, but I'd guess the majority of Sphinxians are genies by now," she replied. He raised a polite eyebrow, and she shrugged. "Think about it," she suggested. "Heavy-grav planets are one of the most common 'hostile' environments. You know that even today most heavy-worlders have shorter than average life expectancies?" She looked at White Haven again, and he nodded. "That's because even with modern medicine you can't put a body designed for a single gravity onto a one-point-three or one-point-five-gravity planet and expect it to function properly. I, on the other hand—"

"That's fascinating," White Haven murmured. "You say more than half of Sphinx has the same modification?"

"That's only an estimate, and it's not one modification. The Harringtons are descended from the Meyerdahl First Wave, which was one of the first—in fact, I think it was the first—heavy-grav modification, and folks like us probably make up about twenty or twenty-five percent of the population. But there are several variations on the same theme, and worlds tend to attract colonists who can live there comfortably. When you add the free passages the government offered to recruit fresh colonists after the Plague of Twenty-Two AL, Sphinx wound up attracting an even bigger chunk of us than most, including a lot from the core worlds who wouldn't even have considered emigration otherwise. In many respects, the Meyerdahl genies are the most successful, in my modest opinion, though. Our musculature enhancement is certainly the most efficient, at any rate. But we do have one problem most of the others don't."

"Which is?"

"Most of us don't regenerate," she told him, touching the left side of her face. "Over eighty percent of us have a built-in genetic conflict with the regen therapies, and not even Beowulf has been able to figure out how to get around it yet. I'm pretty sure they will eventually, but for now—"

Amaroq wrote:My interpretation of these passages is that while the conflict is not associated directly with the locked part of the mods that there is something within the mods (maybe some not-locked-in part?) that is interfering with the regen therapies.

jgnfld wrote:

JohnRoth wrote:...

That's the theory. As the saying goes, the difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there is no difference.

The essence of a double-blind test is that neither the patient nor the attending physician is supposed to know which is which. In practice, with modern medicines that have significant side effects, it's almost impossible to do right, especially since the experimenters are probably not going to be allowed to build a placebo with the same side effects.

If you add in an "existing treatment," there may be no way to blind it at all.

Then add in the internet. From what I've heard, there have been situations where people in the program have gotten together over the net, compared information and know pretty well who's getting the real treatment and who's getting the placebo.

The point he was making is that once any sort of successful treatment regime is established, there is no need for a raw control group any more and so there is generally no placebo control at all in clinical trials of new treatments for harmful diseases/disorders which have known treatments. The previous/older treatment group--the "positive control group"--serves in its stead.

jgnfld wrote:Blinding is far more complex than the simple notions of single and double blind. Researchers are quite well aware of all the factors you mention. See CONSORT (2010) http://www.consort-statement.org/home/ for some of the most up-to-date definitions and practice guidelines with respect to clinical trials. (Fair warning, the docs there assume significant prior knowledge.)

RHWoodman wrote:

HungryKing wrote:People, prolong does not violate the Beowolf Code, it is not a gene mod, it is a, mostly, single generation, epigenetic change, prolong literally convinces the body not to age. This part of the reason the mesan life extention mods stack with prolong. As for fixing nonresponsiveness to regen, it is not going beyond the natural limits, and in a universe where only a minority of people do not respond, it is pretty much the definition of a disease state.

There is some evidence that epigenetic changes are heritable. Moreover, since epigenetic changes can influence behavior, an argument could be made for a cautious approach to modification.

I wonder how Beowulf and Mesa each views engineering the human microbiome?

JohnRoth wrote:...



Comparing a new therapy with an existing one allows you to establish a baseline for whether the new therapy is enough better to be economic. It doesn't do anything to assess the strength of the placebo effect, which is what double blind studies are for.

jgnfld wrote:Blinding is far more complex than the simple notions of single and double blind. Researchers are quite well aware of all the factors you mention. See CONSORT (2010) http://www.consort-statement.org/home/ for some of the most up-to-date definitions and practice guidelines with respect to clinical trials. (Fair warning, the docs there assume significant prior knowledge.)

This is true. Where do you think I get my information?

Among other things, I was trying to shake the notion that double blind trials are simple; apparently I was too subtle.