Detweiler Vision vs Beowulf Code: "Right" and "Wrong"

TheMonster wrote:

namelessfly wrote:The opening chapter of A BEAUTIFUL FRIENDSHIP alludes to the extent of genetic engineering by mentioning that Stephanie's Meyerdahl modifications are somewhat unusual because they can breed true with unmodified humans. Imagine the hostility that could evolve when such fundamental biological reality establishes divisions between peoples that can't be mellowed by gradual interbreeding.

But the Meyerdahl mod can't "be mellowed by gradual interbreeding" either. It is "locked" (DW has used the term "dominant", but that's not the right word to use in 21st Century genetic discussions; it means something very different) so that all of Stephanie's descendants have the Meyerdahl mod package.

I understand that the Winton mods are also "locked", which raises the question of what happens when a Harrington and a Winton mate. Do the offspring get both packages, or do they fight with each other, possibly resulting in such unions being infertile?

And apparently locked mods are allowed by the Beowulf Code!

Actually, it's not clear whether locked mods are allowed by the Beowulf Code. What is clear is that mods that already exist are allowed by the Beowulf Code. Both the Winton and Meyerdahl mods predate the writing of the Beowulf Code.

SWM wrote:...
Actually, it's not clear whether locked mods are allowed by the Beowulf Code. What is clear is that mods that already exist are allowed by the Beowulf Code. Both the Winton and Meyerdahl mods predate the writing of the Beowulf Code.

It would seem a bit silly and counterproductive to have a mod for a specific purpose like adaptation to a heavy gravity that was NOT locked. Surely the Beowulf Code must recognize that.

SWM wrote:What is clear is that mods that already exist are allowed by the Beowulf Code.

Which makes the restriction even more pointless and arbitrary than it is. Sure it's a measure of quality control but...

aairfccha wrote:

SWM wrote:What is clear is that mods that already exist are allowed by the Beowulf Code.

Which makes the restriction even more pointless and arbitrary than it is. Sure it's a measure of quality control but...

The trouble with all rules and laws is that events out strip them

Poker

Another thought on the morality issue: Can a murdered person's donated organs be used to save the life of the murderer's sister or daughter? And, as far as medical atrocities are concerned, they weren't limited to the Germans and Japanese during the war. We keep uncovering some of our own from the past. Syphilis patients were given placebos instead of curatives to track the progress of the disease.

Reader Bob wrote:Another thought on the morality issue: Can a murdered person's donated organs be used to save the life of the murderer's sister or daughter? And, as far as medical atrocities are concerned, they weren't limited to the Germans and Japanese during the war. We keep uncovering some of our own from the past. Syphilis patients were given placebos instead of curatives to track the progress of the disease.

That happens all the time. I've known any number of people in experimental programs. There is really no way to estabish that the curatives are curative without the placebos to compare them against. That is normal implementation of the scientific method.

Don

n7axw wrote:That happens all the time. I've known any number of people in experimental programs. There is really no way to estabish that the curatives are curative without the placebos to compare them against. That is normal implementation of the scientific method.

First, if there is an existing treatment, the new is tested against the old not against a placebo.

Second, if results are markedly different the study is usually broken off early and all participants are switched on the better.

Third I guess Reader Bob refers to the Tuskegee syphilis experiment or the follow-ups in Guatemala which weren't anything I'd call a regular (or remotely ethical) drug test.

Right you are aairfccha! When I know that I'm in a study I can expect the chance that I will receive the sugar pill. I don't expect my regular doctor to give me one unless he thinks I'm making up my 'illness' in which case he needs solid proof.

aairfccha wrote:First, if there is an existing treatment, the new is tested against the old not against a placebo.

Second, if results are markedly different the study is usually broken off early and all participants are switched on the better.

Third I guess Reader Bob refers to the Tuskegee syphilis experiment or the follow-ups in Guatemala which weren't anything I'd call a regular (or remotely ethical) drug test.

It occurs to me that in one way, the MAlign could have accomplished a lot of what they wanted by publishing their discoveries on Genetic improvements in Humans. Once the data was publicly available, there would be a major demand to use it for people to improve their potential offspring. Even if only a few percentage points of people were initially interested, the effects over time would ramp up.

If the Manties manage to capture the Mesan genetic research databases, they should not make it publicly available. They should make the information available to Torch, and they should probably (?) extract the information useful for treating genetic conditions, but making it commonly available would actually help the goals of the MAlign. The only downside for the MAlign if the data was published is that they would not be in control of the data.

Ultimately, I think that if the Manties can capture the data, then it will probably eventually leak out. In the interim, I suspect that professionals like Alison will be given access to the data to help treat genetic diseases.

I'm not sure what MWW is planning to do, assuming that Mike captures Mesa before someone turns it into a Billiard Ball. I'm also not sure what is "the right thing to do" in this case.

-- Bob G

Actually this particular study in no way met scientific research standards nor any level of ethical standards. It was an appalling example of medical research. It directly led to the present day institutional review board structure and other regulatory actions.

As I was in my doctoral research phase then, they also personally caused me no end of trouble as the boards took a while to get their procedures and acts together.

Google Tuskegee syphilis experiment.

n7axw wrote:

Reader Bob wrote:... Syphilis patients were given placebos instead of curatives to track the progress of the disease.

That happens all the time. I've known any number of people in experimental programs. There is really no way to estabish that the curatives are curative without the placebos to compare them against. That is normal implementation of the scientific method.

Don