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Detweiler Vision vs Beowulf Code: "Right" and "Wrong"
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by Reader Bob
» Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:49 pm
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Reader Bob
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The Mesan Alignment is similar if not the same as some fundamental religious sects. They know that they are the true faith and nothing they do to promote the faith can be wrong. Of course what I know is correct and, given enough time, everyone else will realize it too and will worship me for making them see the light.
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| Re: Detweiler Vision vs Beowulf Code: "Right" and "Wrong" | |
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by Amaroq
» Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:49 pm
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Amaroq
Posts: 523
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It seems to me like both sides went overboard with their various policies just in opposite directions. I guess no one remembered Aristotle's maxim of "all things in moderation."
Beowulf perhaps needed to begin easing off some of the restrictions gradually instead of just keeping everything tamped down for centuries. I get the sense that Leonard Detweiler's original vision wasn't as forceful as what his descendants have made it. Their lapse into that "end justifies the means" mentality is perhaps the most dangerous thing they've done. The alterations to Detweiler's original idea seem to fall under the idea of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." I definitely agree with cthia on the production of weaponized nanotech being completely unforgivable and way across the line. *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
In War: Resolution. In Defeat: Defiance. In Victory: Magnanimity. In Peace: Goodwill. |
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by Amaroq
» Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:52 pm
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Amaroq
Posts: 523
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Good point, I hadn't considered it from this angle. Maybe there are some similarities between the Masadans and the Mesans in this regard? *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
In War: Resolution. In Defeat: Defiance. In Victory: Magnanimity. In Peace: Goodwill. |
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by Direwolf18
» Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:45 pm
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Direwolf18
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In absolute ideals I do find myself more inline with the ideal of the Mesan Alignment laid out by Leonard Detweiler. I think if I had lived in that time period I would have sided with him over the Beowulf code. Now admittedly today they have gone off the deep end and their means to the ends need to be stopped.
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by n7axw
» Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:06 am
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n7axw
Posts: 5997
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Perhaps the trouble here is who decides what for whom. How are the lines to be drawn? When you say that "something is way over the line," whose line are you talking about? I suspect that we could probably gather a near consenses on a quite a number of improvements that would make people's lives healthier. And there are also things we could probably agree shouldn't happen.
But then there is that mucky grey area in the middle. Making people physically stronger or more intelligent sounds good until you start thinking about the social flip side. What is to prevent such people from predatory behavior toward those who haven't benefited from the improvements? Or to rephrase the question, how is the human dignity of "mere humans" protected? Or to flip the question, how is someone like Yana or Honor protected against the biases of "mere humans." Perhaps what I am trying to say is that in our own universe, we are already struggling against racism based on such things as skin color which by way of comparsion to something like this is trivial. I'm pretty sure we don't have the maturity to handle it. In fact, I doubt that we ever will. Don When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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by glott
» Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:26 am
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glott
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[quote=Direwolf18]In absolute ideals I do find myself more inline with the ideal of the Mesan Alignment laid out by Leonard Detweiler. I think if I had lived in that time period I would have sided with him over the Beowulf code. Now admittedly today they have gone off the deep end and their means to the ends need to be stopped.[/quote] Bold mine I think we all need to remember that it was apparently Leonard Detweiler who created Manpower as the Mesan Alignment's "public face." The strategy, if it can be dignified with that word, of using genetic slaves as human guinea pigs for the Alignment's improvements to humanity started with him. *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
"...the ability of an entrenched, bureaucratic military to ignore anything which challenges its fundamental working assumptions simply cannot be exaggerated." - David Weber |
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by HungryKing
» Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:30 am
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HungryKing
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One of the things, in series, that people remark about Beowolf is how conservative they are once you get past the libertine egalitarian philosopher / scientist shell. Before the Final War, many of the older systems were running eugenics programs, probably far less horrific than what goes on in the alignment labs, but at least some of them were using in vitro lines, Beowolf appearantly never went that far, they always were ver conservative, indeed there is a point when it is noted that Beowolf Eugenesists make a point of never tubing, unless there is a severe health risk stemming from pregnancy complications, which given how skilled Beowolf is supposed to be, are probably shockingly rare.
Detwieler's group predecessors were probably a small minority even before the Rescue Fleet and the founding of the League, which, in turn, meant that the understandable initial reversal on eugenics, wasn't just a short term fad, suddenly the extremely conservative beowolf form of eugenics, which is realy nothing more that disease correction (using disease in a looser sense which includes the discomfort of not being adapted to your enviroment), defines the limit of what is allowed, so it is not even possible for people like Detwieler to move to a system that had not banned eugenics and try to restart the program. |
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by Hutch
» Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:06 am
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Hutch
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Interesting views.
I will only add: Cauldron of Ghosts Dinner Party Tum-de-tum-di-dum... I'll meet back here in about a month.... ***********************************************
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5 |
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by Amaroq
» Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:11 am
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Amaroq
Posts: 523
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Was it Leonard Detweiler's idea to use genetic slavery has a front to distract from the real Alignment machinations, too? *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
In War: Resolution. In Defeat: Defiance. In Victory: Magnanimity. In Peace: Goodwill. |
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by runsforcelery
» Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:19 am
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runsforcelery
Posts: 2425
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No. "Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead. |
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