Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

Rakhmamort wrote:

The E wrote:We already had a long and tortuous "mobile shipyards" discussion a couple weeks back. It's a concept that sounds nice in theory, but has severe limitations ín practice (not to mention that remodelling the ships as you suggest amounts to rebuilding them from scratch, which noone is all that keen on doing). It's a solution in search of a problem, basically.

Well, compared to transmuting them to chocolate, I think turning them into shipyards is a hell of a lot feasible don't you think?

But nowhere near as much fun. It is nearly easter, after all.

Dafmeister wrote:But nowhere near as much fun. It is nearly easter, after all.

Uhmm... culture gap... I'm in Asia and though Easter is celebrated where I come from, there's no direct connection with chocolate.

Rakhmamort wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:But nowhere near as much fun. It is nearly easter, after all.

Uhmm... culture gap... I'm in Asia and though Easter is celebrated where I come from, there's no direct connection with chocolate.

I don't know whether it originated in Europe or the US, but over here Easter is a chocolate-fest. Chocolate eggs, chocolate rabbits, more chocolate eggs... You get the picture.

Dafmeister wrote:I don't know whether it originated in Europe or the US, but over here Easter is a chocolate-fest. Chocolate eggs, chocolate rabbits, more chocolate eggs... You get the picture.

You don't need to have an excuse to eat chocolate.

(The only problem I find with the chocolate sold during easter is that it's of inferior quality)

Joat42 wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:I don't know whether it originated in Europe or the US, but over here Easter is a chocolate-fest. Chocolate eggs, chocolate rabbits, more chocolate eggs... You get the picture.

You don't need to have an excuse to eat chocolate.

(The only problem I find with the chocolate sold during easter is that it's of inferior quality)

Way too much parafin in the cheap stuff

Joat42 wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:I don't know whether it originated in Europe or the US, but over here Easter is a chocolate-fest. Chocolate eggs, chocolate rabbits, more chocolate eggs... You get the picture.

You don't need to have an excuse to eat chocolate.

(The only problem I find with the chocolate sold during easter is that it's of inferior quality)

This one is something that has to be accepted as life's basic truths.

To start to build ships a star citizen needs to start somewhere. My thoughts were to start a shipyard like Grayson did. Just float the material out into space and begin construction.

The question is why did I suggest using a few sollie sd's to refurbish. It's not about money because a star system is going to lose money on refurbishing an SD. Now, they could take some of Manties or Grayson obselote regular SD's it does not matter. Granted it would be cheaper to refurbish the Grayson/Manticoran/Erewhon SD's than it would be a captured Solly SD. In the end, a star system is not going to save that much money on using a Grayson/Manticoran/Erewhon SD. What they are going to learn is the technical skills that are needed to build SD's. What equipment is needed etc...etc...etc...

Let's take Marsh or whoever as example when building SD's. (Now Marsh really does not have the population to support a yard that can build SD's) They refurbish a couple of SD's and decide to build a couple of SD podnaughts with the technical skills they learned by refurshing some old SD's. As a result, they decide to build modular podnaughts that are put together. They then grow the armor in place after the podnaughts are built are built or nearly completed. This process might save money or it might save time in construction. What if Grayson or Manitcore could save 6 to 8 months in building podnaughts by having another star system build their own yards and they discover a better way to build podnaughts. For most star systems, they are going to build a standard yard because they know the process works. Their are only a few systems that have the technical skills and the more importantly the money to build SD podnaughts.

The question is why did I suggest using a few sollie sd's to refurbish. It's not about money because a star system is going to lose money on refurbishing an SD. Now, they could take some of Manties or Grayson obselote regular SD's it does not matter. Granted it would be cheaper to refurbish the Grayson/Manticoran/Erewhon SD's than it would be a captured Solly SD. In the end, a star system is not going to save that much money on using a Grayson/Manticoran/Erewhon SD. What they are going to learn is the technical skills that are needed to build SD's. What equipment is needed etc...etc...etc...

Refurbishing presupposes that they have something to refurbish with. That means having a source of parts and facilities with mechanical support to do refurbishing in. This is not some tiny amount of pocket change for a star nation. It is a massive investment across the board in multiple fields and industries. One has to be able to produce the replacement parts, otherwise the whole exercise is not possible.

Let's take Marsh or whoever as example when building SD's. (Now Marsh really does not have the population to support a yard that can build SD's) They refurbish a couple of SD's and decide to build a couple of SD podnaughts with the technical skills they learned by refurshing some old SD's. As a result, they decide to build modular podnaughts that are put together. They then grow the armor in place after the podnaughts are built are built or nearly completed. This process might save money or it might save time in construction. What if Grayson or Manitcore could save 6 to 8 months in building podnaughts by having another star system build their own yards and they discover a better way to build podnaughts. For most star systems, they are going to build a standard yard because they know the process works. Their are only a few systems that have the technical skills and the more importantly the money to build SD podnaughts.

Refurbishing an old solid-cored SD designed for energy range combat is not going to provide a lot of experience in developing new hollow-cored SD(P)s. It took significant redesign time with many revisions to make the podnought design work. A navy without any institutional experience in building capital ships just is not going to crap out a working SD(P) design easily.

I also take exception to your optimistic estimate of how much time you can knock off SD(P) construction. Both Manticore and Grayson were producing SD(P)s as fast as physically possible at around 20 months, and even that took some seriously risky shortcuts. There is no more fat that can be cut from the meat there. It certainly cannot be done by some minor Verge entity which has no experience building warships.

Potato wrote:
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I also take exception to your optimistic estimate of how much time you can knock off SD(P) construction. Both Manticore and Grayson were producing SD(P)s as fast as physically possible at around 20 months, and even that took some seriously risky shortcuts. There is no more fat that can be cut from the meat there. It certainly cannot be done by some minor Verge entity which has no experience building warships.

Precisely, Don't forget Haven moved mountains and completely changed their construction methodality to get their construction times down to 36 months (SD(p)s at bolthole)- down from 48+. This is from a star nation which had constructed over a thousand capitol ships (BB-SD) in the 100 years prior to 1915.

Manticore built over 400 capitol ships in the 75 years leading up to 1915, and at that point were down to the 24-30 month mark.

The SLN's building times are horrendous at somewhere around 60-72 months for an SD - of course part of this is graft, other parts are akin to the US's current policy of protracted carrier build times to retain qualified workers.

Overall, Haven's build times are probably most realistic for a "average" trained, and provisioned shipyard and crew. Only an exceptional crew, a massive industrial push across 100s of major industries and "Henry Kaiser" style building methodality (to build massive fleets) will result in the 20-22 months Manticore and Grayson were capable of in the early 1920s PD.

Then there is the question: Do we want small systems in verge having their very own sds? It seems to me that they should better things to do with their resourses... like investing in education or upgrading medical care. Besides the more of the things there are out there, the more likely they are to be used by someone who decides to play conquistador.

Not a very optimal idea, I don't think.

Don