New Manty ship ideas.

Anyway, I'll just summarize the proposal.

Since the role of the Shrike LACs is to get within knife fighting range of the enemy and wreck havoc, and that they would have a good chance (compared to the chances of proper warships) of finding an enemy with sidewall generators down in close range (due to the 'supporting' missile strikes or from the pounding their grasers are dealing). It might be a good idea to replace some missile launchers with ETorpedo Launchers in some LACs to deliver huge amounts of damage if the opportunity presents itself. That is, if they can find a way to mate the micro fusion plant tech with ETorp Launchers and fit such launchers in a LAC.

Rakhmamort wrote:Anyway, I'll just summarize the proposal.

Since the role of the Shrike LACs is to get within knife fighting range of the enemy and wreck havoc, and that they would have a good chance (compared to the chances of proper warships) of finding an enemy with sidewall generators down in close range (due to the 'supporting' missile strikes or from the pounding their grasers are dealing). It might be a good idea to replace some missile launchers with ETorpedo Launchers in some LACs to deliver huge amounts of damage if the opportunity presents itself. That is, if they can find a way to mate the micro fusion plant tech with ETorp Launchers and fit such launchers in a LAC.

And to summarise the objection, is it rally a good idea to fit a warship with weapons that can only be used in very specific circumstances when it means replacing weapons that can be used all the time?

Dafmeister wrote:

Rakhmamort wrote:Anyway, I'll just summarize the proposal.

Since the role of the Shrike LACs is to get within knife fighting range of the enemy and wreck havoc, and that they would have a good chance (compared to the chances of proper warships) of finding an enemy with sidewall generators down in close range (due to the 'supporting' missile strikes or from the pounding their grasers are dealing). It might be a good idea to replace some missile launchers with ETorpedo Launchers in some LACs to deliver huge amounts of damage if the opportunity presents itself. That is, if they can find a way to mate the micro fusion plant tech with ETorp Launchers and fit such launchers in a LAC.

And to summarise the objection, is it rally a good idea to fit a warship with weapons that can only be used in very specific circumstances when it means replacing weapons that can be used all the time?

You cannot use a LACs missile launchers 'all the time'. Shrikes do not have unlimited ammo. What are your launchers worth after you shot out your load and half the enemy force is still up and running?

They still are much more multifunction, multirole, and usable across a wide variety of situations than energy torpedoes.

Potato wrote:They still are much more multifunction, multirole, and usable across a wide variety of situations than energy torpedoes.

Right. The loss of 10 LAC missiles is going to make them unbelievably useless even if you gave them a huge hammer they can use from time to time to replace what they lost.

Rakhmamort wrote:You cannot use a LACs missile launchers 'all the time'. Shrikes do not have unlimited ammo. What are your launchers worth after you shot out your load and half the enemy force is still up and running?

And your "solution" is to cut the available ammo in half in exchange for a weapon that may not be usable at all.

LACs need all the flexibility they can get, because their basic design doesn't allow them much. By varying missile loadouts before committing to a strike, they can adapt to a range of mission profiles; if you remove those missiles for some other system, it kinda has to be a system that can be as flexible as those missile launchers.

Energy torpedoes do not fill any actual need in an LAC's spec sheet. They allow them to perform slightly better under a very narrow set of circumstances, circumstances in which the existing weapon loadout is already sufficient.

That's the main point in this subdiscussion for me: You have so far not been able to demonstrate a pressing need for this system. If you asked me for alternative ideas, I would say that a more rewarding avenue for research and development might be the adaptation of the Mk 16G warhead for use in the shipkiller missiles carried by LACs; in other words, increase the lethality of the existing weapons.

The E wrote:

Rakhmamort wrote:You cannot use a LACs missile launchers 'all the time'. Shrikes do not have unlimited ammo. What are your launchers worth after you shot out your load and half the enemy force is still up and running?

And your "solution" is to cut the available ammo in half in exchange for a weapon that may not be usable at all.

LACs need all the flexibility they can get, because their basic design doesn't allow them much. By varying missile loadouts before committing to a strike, they can adapt to a range of mission profiles; if you remove those missiles for some other system, it kinda has to be a system that can be as flexible as those missile launchers.

Energy torpedoes do not fill any actual need in an LAC's spec sheet. They allow them to perform slightly better under a very narrow set of circumstances, circumstances in which the existing weapon loadout is already sufficient.

That's the main point in this subdiscussion for me: You have so far not been able to demonstrate a pressing need for this system. If you asked me for alternative ideas, I would say that a more rewarding avenue for research and development might be the adaptation of the Mk 16G warhead for use in the shipkiller missiles carried by LACs; in other words, increase the lethality of the existing weapons.

I doubt if the Manticoran Navy deploys just Shrikes in one system. There will always be Ferrets for your missile needs. The Ferrets are there to give LACs the flexibility of missile loadouts. You really can't mix and match a lot with only 5 tubes per launcher. The Shrike's ship killing capability lies with it's energy weapon, not with it's missiles. That's the Ferret's area of expertise.

As for your claim that the ETorps may not be usable at all. I sincerely doubt LACs can take down an enemy ship without taking down one or more of its target's sidewall generators. Ergo your claim that the Etorps will never be used is highly unlikely.

Rakhmamort wrote:As for your claim that the ETorps may not be usable at all. I sincerely doubt LACs can take down an enemy ship without taking down one or more of its target's sidewall generators. Ergo your claim that the Etorps will never be used is highly unlikely.

*sigh*

And by that time, the normal Graser will be just as effective against the targets as the ETorp will. Except at longer range. And without introducing new gunports in the bow wall.

The E wrote:

Rakhmamort wrote:As for your claim that the ETorps may not be usable at all. I sincerely doubt LACs can take down an enemy ship without taking down one or more of its target's sidewall generators. Ergo your claim that the Etorps will never be used is highly unlikely.

*sigh*

And by that time, the normal Graser will be just as effective against the targets as the ETorp will. Except at longer range. And without introducing new gunports in the bow wall.

I don't think so. Fearless took out an SD with just a couple of ETorp salvos. I sincerely doubt the same number of graser hits would have done the same.

As for new gunports, this is grasping at straws time. Why would there be new ones? Can't the ETorp launchers use the ones the missile launchers they've replaced were supposed to use?

I don't think so. Fearless took out an SD with just a couple of ETorp salvos. I sincerely doubt the same number of graser hits would have done the same.

Because the sidewalls were down. As shown in both SoS and FiE, the damage from graser fire can be quite terrible without a sidewall to interdict.

As for new gunports, this is grasping at straws time. Why would there be new ones? Can't the ETorp launchers use the ones the missile launchers they've replaced were supposed to use?

The bow wall drops in order to fire the missiles, as described in EoH.