(Spoiler) What military role will Corisande play in HFQ?

They can train marines, one would think.

dwileye13 wrote:

AClone wrote:No, there aren't. Unless you just want more Marines. The occupying force is not a training cadre, as has been shown numerous times that Marines know nothing about Army tactics.

I'd expect that those Marines are on the first troopships out--if not already gone at this stage--and Corisandians will, indeed, go up to Chisholm to train.

Those Marines defeated the Coridsande Army and have been in the country for a while. Marines have demonstrated they can absorb and utilize the modern tactics and weapons. They are not just dumb marines and incapable of training a soldier.

Officers and NCO's make up the cadre and could perform the task

boballab wrote:2. Most of you seem to just think of the Infantry which is understandable since it has been dominating the storylines, however the Corisande Army wasn't noted for its Infantry but its Cavalry which is something the ICA still lacks (remember in LaMA that one ICA commander wished he had a Cavalry unit so he could slip them behind the AoG Army he was facing). Also that Cavalry has experience facing rifled muzzle loaders and wouldn't make the mistakes the Desnarians have. Give them breechloaders of their own and you have just acquired a nice hard hitting, fast moving raiding force that can be deployed in some interesting places.

More likely mounted infantry than true cavalry. Mobility vs. large moving target. Making that change would be another training challenge, but certainly not an insurmountable one.

Hi everybody,

One potential issue that has been alluded to but not thorougly aired here is the reality that Corisande is only now moving from the status of conquered and occupied province to full participation in the Empire. Because of this, its reliability can't be firmly established.

That will change over time, but memories of being recently conquered by Charis are for lots of Corisandians still pretty fresh. This raises the question as to whether or not it would be wise to raise and train fresh Corisandian units as such and trust them in the field.

Corisandians have had the right to enroll in the armed forces of the empire upon oath of allegiance from right after the signing of the armistise, but the concept was not of separate Corisandian units, but of Corisandians
"fully integrated" into imperial armed forces. That would mean mixed units consisting of people from all the empires provinces to avoid promoting separate Corisandian identity.

Gharvy's armies prior to defeat by Charis were about 130,000 men. They were well rounded in basic military skills and discipline. They were defeated primarily because of Charis' advantage in weapons and Merlin's ability to provide superior reconaisance.

After armistice Cayleb allowed for the recruitment and rearming of 30,000 men as peacekeepers who were reissued flintlock muskets, not rifles. So while their basic foundations are sound, they would need additional training in fully modern weapons and tactics. Given that, it would be a lot more prudent to ship them up to Chisholm for training and to rub elbows with Zebadians, Emeraldians and others who are already there training with the army cadre that is already there in the interest of promoting the integration I referred to earlier.

As for where to send them when they are ready, my vote would be to Dohlar. Siddamark is already going full throttle on recruiting and given the influx of refugees has lots of manpower. Arming the manpower that Siddamark recruits is going to be a bigger problem than recruiting warm bodies. And even with temple help, the Harchonese are going to be too cumbersome and poorly armed to be truly dangerous for the agile, well armed opponents Charis and Siddamark are going to be able to counter them with. Visualise Harless times about 5 when you get them in motion. Not good for the Temple.

By going to the Gulf of Dohlar, you present the possibility of a fresh well armed field army that the Temple would be forced to divert effort to oppose. That seems to be more useful than sending them off to Siddamark, although as we have seen on this thread, it can be argued both ways.

Don

n7axw wrote:Hi everybody,

One potential issue that has been alluded to but not thorougly aired here is the reality that Corisande is only now moving from the status of conquered and occupied province to full participation in the Empire. Because of this, its reliability can't be firmly established.

That will change over time, but memories of being recently conquered by Charis are for lots of Corisandians still pretty fresh. This raises the question as to whether or not it would be wise to raise and train fresh Corisandian units as such and trust them in the field.

Corisandians have had the right to enroll in the armed forces of the empire upon oath of allegiance from right after the signing of the armistise, but the concept was not of separate Corisandian units, but of Corisandians
"fully integrated" into imperial armed forces. That would mean mixed units consisting of people from all the empires provinces to avoid promoting separate Corisandian identity.

Gharvy's armies prior to defeat by Charis were about 130,000 men. They were well rounded in basic military skills and discipline. They were defeated primarily because of Charis' advantage in weapons and Merlin's ability to provide superior reconaisance.

After armistice Cayleb allowed for the recruitment and rearming of 30,000 men as peacekeepers who were reissued flintlock muskets, not rifles. So while their basic foundations are sound, they would need additional training in fully modern weapons and tactics. Given that, it would be a lot more prudent to ship them up to Chisholm for training and to rub elbows with Zebadians, Emeraldians and others who are already there training with the army cadre that is already there in the interest of promoting the integration I referred to earlier.

As for where to send them when they are ready, my vote would be to Dohlar. Siddamark is already going full throttle on recruiting and given the influx of refugees has lots of manpower. Arming the manpower that Siddamark recruits is going to be a bigger problem than recruiting warm bodies. And even with temple help, the Harchonese are going to be too cumbersome and poorly armed to be truly dangerous for the agile, well armed opponents Charis and Siddamark are going to be able to counter them with. Visualise Harless times about 5 when you get them in motion. Not good for the Temple.

By going to the Gulf of Dohlar, you present the possibility of a fresh well armed field army that the Temple would be forced to divert effort to oppose. That seems to be more useful than sending them off to Siddamark, although as we have seen on this thread, it can be argued both ways.

Don

Excellent observation. I can see a truly fearsome mixed field force landing in Dohlar, backed up by the first King Haarahld VII's providing covering fire.

n7axw wrote:Hi everybody,

One potential issue that has been alluded to but not thorougly aired here is the reality that Corisande is only now moving from the status of conquered and occupied province to full participation in the Empire. Because of this, its reliability can't be firmly established.

That will change over time, but memories of being recently conquered by Charis are for lots of Corisandians still pretty fresh. This raises the question as to whether or not it would be wise to raise and train fresh Corisandian units as such and trust them in the field.

Corisandians have had the right to enroll in the armed forces of the empire upon oath of allegiance from right after the signing of the armistise, but the concept was not of separate Corisandian units, but of Corisandians
"fully integrated" into imperial armed forces. That would mean mixed units consisting of people from all the empires provinces to avoid promoting separate Corisandian identity.

Gharvy's armies prior to defeat by Charis were about 130,000 men. They were well rounded in basic military skills and discipline. They were defeated primarily because of Charis' advantage in weapons and Merlin's ability to provide superior reconaisance.

After armistice Cayleb allowed for the recruitment and rearming of 30,000 men as peacekeepers who were reissued flintlock muskets, not rifles. So while their basic foundations are sound, they would need additional training in fully modern weapons and tactics. Given that, it would be a lot more prudent to ship them up to Chisholm for training and to rub elbows with Zebadians, Emeraldians and others who are already there training with the army cadre that is already there in the interest of promoting the integration I referred to earlier.


Don

Don, those are good points. To promote an identity of an United Charisian Empire I would try to do that same for the ICN crews as well. As I pointed out in a previous reply, Tarot and Emerald casualties were mentioned during the assault by the AoS on the 12th Mounted's position so it seems some integration of Tarot and Emerald forces had already occurred and RFC didn't make a differentiation of whether those forces were integrated into ICA formations or as separate units within the ICA's overall command.

Where to deploy those integrated forces would be both a strategic and a tactical decision which could change with the ebb and flow of the situation in the Siddarmark Republic.

I still think that Corisande will move more quickly to identify itself as a member of the Empire for several reasons. The obvious attitude of Irys and Daviyan toward the Empire, the even handedness and quick transfer of local authority back to Corisandian hands and the vicious attack by CoGA terrorists upon Hektor and Irys on their wedding day. I believe that attack and it source will change a lot of minds as to whom actually killed Prince Hektor and the Crown Prince. Plus there are the examples of how quickly Emerald, Chisholm and Tarot have integrated fully into the Empire. I'm not so sure Corisande would want to deprive itself of the benefits both economically and political of holding out and letting all the benefits of membership in the Empire flow to the other member kingdoms.

This is true, BUT Emerald and Tarot did have very small armies in the first place. They probably did heavy recruiting for the Imperial Army after they joined but their pre Imperial armies would have been lost in the mix compared to Chrisholm's Royal Army, or the Charis's Marines. There was no possibility of either of them operating independently for any sizable operation.

Corisande however, their royal army IS a respectable size, they could create an entire corps or possibly even two purely from the existing Corisandians under arms.

jlrice54 wrote:

n7axw wrote:Hi everybody,

One potential issue that has been alluded to but not thorougly aired here is the reality that Corisande is only now moving from the status of conquered and occupied province to full participation in the Empire. Because of this, its reliability can't be firmly established.

That will change over time, but memories of being recently conquered by Charis are for lots of Corisandians still pretty fresh. This raises the question as to whether or not it would be wise to raise and train fresh Corisandian units as such and trust them in the field.

Corisandians have had the right to enroll in the armed forces of the empire upon oath of allegiance from right after the signing of the armistise, but the concept was not of separate Corisandian units, but of Corisandians
"fully integrated" into imperial armed forces. That would mean mixed units consisting of people from all the empires provinces to avoid promoting separate Corisandian identity.

Gharvy's armies prior to defeat by Charis were about 130,000 men. They were well rounded in basic military skills and discipline. They were defeated primarily because of Charis' advantage in weapons and Merlin's ability to provide superior reconaisance.

After armistice Cayleb allowed for the recruitment and rearming of 30,000 men as peacekeepers who were reissued flintlock muskets, not rifles. So while their basic foundations are sound, they would need additional training in fully modern weapons and tactics. Given that, it would be a lot more prudent to ship them up to Chisholm for training and to rub elbows with Zebadians, Emeraldians and others who are already there training with the army cadre that is already there in the interest of promoting the integration I referred to earlier.


Don

Don, those are good points. To promote an identity of an United Charisian Empire I would try to do that same for the ICN crews as well. As I pointed out in a previous reply, Tarot and Emerald casualties were mentioned during the assault by the AoS on the 12th Mounted's position so it seems some integration of Tarot and Emerald forces had already occurred and RFC didn't make a differentiation of whether those forces were integrated into ICA formations or as separate units within the ICA's overall command.

Where to deploy those integrated forces would be both a strategic and a tactical decision which could change with the ebb and flow of the situation in the Siddarmark Republic.

I still think that Corisande will move more quickly to identify itself as a member of the Empire for several reasons. The obvious attitude of Irys and Daviyan toward the Empire, the even handedness and quick transfer of local authority back to Corisandian hands and the vicious attack by CoGA terrorists upon Hektor and Irys on their wedding day. I believe that attack and it source will change a lot of minds as to whom actually killed Prince Hektor and the Crown Prince. Plus there are the examples of how quickly Emerald, Chisholm and Tarot have integrated fully into the Empire. I'm not so sure Corisande would want to deprive itself of the benefits both economically and political of holding out and letting all the benefits of membership in the Empire flow to the other member kingdoms.

I pretty much agree with this. In fact, Sharleyan said as much when she noted the ratification of Corisande's parliament by commenting that their motivation was that if they were to be a part of the Empire, they would prefer it on the best terms possible.


There is no question at all but what things in Corisande are headed in a very positive direction. Like you I would expect military recruitment to be up for all of the reasons you suggested. My only comment is that it would be a mistake to organize separate Corisandian units rather than taking the time to fully integrate Corisandians with the rest of the folks serving in the army, and yes, the navy. It is important to promote a common identity amongst all the Empire's provinces. That may well be more important for Corisande than the others precisely because Corisande came into the Empire originally through conquest.

Don

dwileye13 wrote:

DrakBibliophile wrote:I don't know what direction they'll take once trained but I believe that the Corisandian recruits will first go to Chisholm for training (or further training if they were Corisandian Army veterans).

Oh, after the attack on Hektor and Irys, I agree that there will be plenty of Corisandian willing to join up.

Drak,
It is a waste of time and resources to go anywhere to train. There is an excellent core cadre of Charisians to train Corisande's new Army right there at home. Why go West to Go East?

Train them and pick them up on the way to the Gulf of Dohlar

Second that, train them in Corisand. It's good politics as well as a matter of resources. C&S want to show trust and turn Corisand from a net consumer to a net producer of troops ASAP. That means turning existing Corisandian training facilities into producers, not sending Corisandians elsewhere to consume resources. Bring resources to Corisand to fix existing troops, and fix the trainers that produced them too.

As far as where they go, the Go4 are not in Dohlar, and the goal isn't to destroy Dohlar, it is to convince Dohlarians that fighting the EoC and supporting the Go4 are both bad ideas. Thirsk's feet are already looking mighty clay-like. The EoC wants them to feel impotent, but not necessarily prostrate.

The former Corisandian army should be entirely up to taking Delferahk and Sohdar. Was the next continent east from Corisand inclined to piracy? If so, Corisandians might be prepared to support operations against them.

I had this idea that at some point trellheim could be added to the empire, it is a divided pirate haven. so why not get them to invade and invest in the region, get the nobles on their side by giving titles over there, get them investing in building the empire.