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Zavala's Response to the BC's at Saltash

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Re: Zavala's Response to the BC's at Saltash
Post by TheMonster   » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:36 pm

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The E wrote:...or 2, your opponent thinks he has something to even the odds regardless. In order to ensure his command's safety, Zavala had to engage, and engage hard, because the risk of possibility 2 being in effect outweighs other considerations.
I remember working in a job where I had off-duty cops present as security, and talking with them. I learned a lot about rules of engagement. That's why I mentioned the idea of a cop "shooting to disable" a perp before. It's nonsense. You don't discharge your weapon unless you intend to kill what you're shooting at.

[ Insert Theisman's rant at Honor's self-recriminations during the post-2BoM meeting here. ] If Zavala engaged the enemy without overwhelming force, then he too would deserve to be broken and beached, deemed unfit to command Her Majesty's Ships ever again.
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Re: Zavala's Response to the BC's at Saltash
Post by boballab   » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:17 pm

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TheMonster wrote: One of these days we're going to see a Manty commander who thinks that their tech advantage is so overwhelming they can't possibly get hurt... and that's when they'll get crushed.


We can make a case that we have already seen that in War of Honor with Janacek:
He cocked an eyebrow at the First Lord, and Janacek made a sound which the less charitable might have described as an irritated grunt.

"No other navy in space has so far commissioned any pod superdreadnoughts," he pronounced with the infallibility of God. "Admiral Jurgensen and his analysts at ONI have amply confirmed that! We, on the other hand, have a solid core of over sixty. That's more than sufficient to defeat any conventional navy, especially with the CLACs to support and scout for them."

...

"You're probably right," Janacek conceded sourly. "But in answer to your question, our only conceivable enemy for the immediate future would be the Peeps. As you say, they undoubtedly have an incentive to match our capabilities, but, frankly, their tech base is much too far behind ours for them to duplicate our hardware any time within the next ten years or so, by ONI's most conservative estimate. I've discussed this very question with Admiral Jurgensen, and he assures me his analysts are virtually unanimous in that opinion.

"Furthermore, even if they had the technical ability to build matching ships, they'd still have to lay down the hulls, build them, crew them, and then train them up to an operational standard before they could pose any threat to us. As all of you are aware from the ONI reports I've shared with you, Theisman, Tourville, and Giscard are still busy fighting their own dissident elements with exactly the same obsolescent ships they used against us. We've seen absolutely no sign of any enhancement in their capabilities. Even better, from our perspective as a potential adversary, the way they're continuing to kill one another off is not only continuing to cost them their more experienced officers and crews but producing a steady drain even on the ships they do have."


Yeah it isn't a ship, squadron or fleet commander but he was the commander of the entire RMN and his belief in Manty tech superiority got them crushed when the RHN attacked and the commanders still thought they had the advantages of multidrive missiles and CLAC's.
............................................................................

"I'd like to think that someone in the Navy somewhere has at least the IQ of a gerbil!" Rear Admiral Rozsak on the officers in the SLN
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Re: Zavala's Response to the BC's at Saltash
Post by saber964   » Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:24 pm

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TheMonster wrote:
wholf359 wrote:While he does underestimate the mod-g warhead by quite a large margin it really does not matter. As a commander his job was to protect the people under his command, not protect the people trying to kill his people.

No policeman or soldier is required to "fire a warning shot", "shoot to wound, not to kill", or "shoot the gun out of the desperado's hand". You're lucky to get even one chance to surrender without getting shot.


That much is true about the police shooting the gun out of a badguys hand.

There has in the United States only 'one' deliberate case of a police officer shooting the gun out of a badguys hand in the last fifty years, and that shot was taken by a SWAT sniper at range of 45yds. The police sniper in question was also a former army sniper.
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Re: Zavala's Response to the BC's at Saltash
Post by MaxxQ   » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:38 pm

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saber964 wrote:That much is true about the police shooting the gun out of a badguys hand.

There has in the United States only 'one' deliberate case of a police officer shooting the gun out of a badguys hand in the last fifty years, and that shot was taken by a SWAT sniper at range of 45yds. The police sniper in question was also a former army sniper.


Talking about this one?:
http://youtu.be/AHvWaviIXsk

Gotta love the Columbus, Ohio Police Department.
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Re: Zavala's Response to the BC's at Saltash
Post by saber964   » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:53 pm

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MaxxQ wrote:
saber964 wrote:That much is true about the police shooting the gun out of a badguys hand.

There has in the United States only 'one' deliberate case of a police officer shooting the gun out of a badguys hand in the last fifty years, and that shot was taken by a SWAT sniper at range of 45yds. The police sniper in question was also a former army sniper.


Talking about this one?:
http://youtu.be/AHvWaviIXsk

Gotta love the Columbus, Ohio Police Department.

yes
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Re: Zavala's Response to the BC's at Saltash
Post by Fireflair   » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:35 am

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saber964 wrote:That much is true about the police shooting the gun out of a badguys hand.

There has in the United States only 'one' deliberate case of a police officer shooting the gun out of a badguys hand in the last fifty years, and that shot was taken by a SWAT sniper at range of 45yds. The police sniper in question was also a former army sniper.


I got this silly question a lot when I taught small arms in Georgia at the Navy gun range. And again from civilians. The rules of deadly force are there for a lot of reasons. And though the military uses different ones then the civilian police force, a lot of the rules still apply. And for a lot of the same reasons.

Keeping yourself safe. Keeping your comrades safe. And preventing legal action later on down the line.

I always reminded my boys and girls of a police occurrence about ten years ago. A man in Texas came home to find a burglar stealing his stereo and other electronics. Being a good Texan, he reached back for his rifle in the back of the truck and shot the man in the leg after warning him to leave.

He thought he was being a good guy by: 1. Warning the man he would shoot. 2. Only injuring him.

The burglar took him to court, and won the initial trial, for assault with a deadly weapon.

The officers involved told the Texan home owner that he should have killed the man, drug the body back inside his home and put a knife in his hand. He'd have gotten off scott free, if he'd done so.
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Re: Zavala's Response to the BC's at Saltash
Post by kzt   » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:52 am

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The only way the "drag the body" bit works is if the cops decide to ignore the evidence as to what happened. Which does sometimes happen. If it doesn't happen then you are in a world of hurt, as there are a whole bunch of new felonies involved and the whole tone of the investigation changes.

However in Texas you can use deadly force to protect property in ways that you can't do in most other states, so it probably isn't necessary to drag the body anywhere.
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