Honorverse Euphemisms

MsBekky wrote:cthia, I am glad that in the Honorverse, people have gotten past your view. A woman voluntarily selling sex is just as honorable as selling a pedicure or selling paper filing. A prostitute is not a sex slave. That is not subjective.

Actually, MsBekky, I think that you may have just pointed out the disconnect that cthia and I were having. For him (and I still think he has it backwards) and possibly in what ever social group he is in, sex slave could very well be a euphemism for prostitute. In the Honorverse, it is most definitely not. No one in the novels would ever hear "sex slave" and think of an escort, a prostitute, or a hooker.

MsBekky wrote:cthia, I am glad that in the Honorverse, people have gotten past your view. A woman voluntarily selling sex is just as honorable as selling a pedicure or selling paper filing. A prostitute is not a sex slave. That is not subjective.

I thought that I made it clear that I am not making moral judgements on a prostitute. I am not. In fact, I think prostitution should be legalized. Legal prostitution would be regulated prostitution and lots of sexually transmitted diseases may be avoided. And prostitutes would have a safer environment in which to operate. Consider the Red Light District in Amsterdam. It is very regulated and very tastefully done. And Amsterdam represents one of the lowest statistical cases of STDs.

All I am saying is this.
Hold up a cue card with sex slave on it and my brain parses prostitute.

I am not saying that it is fair. I am only saying for me sex slave conjures up prostitute.

Don't assume that I am casting aspersions on prostitutes, but it seems that every one else is.

Can I help it if my mind thinks prostitute when it hears sex slave?

And I say again, at three-thousand dollars a night some men are going to expect a high class prostitute to be their sexual slave.

I don't make the rules, don't shoot the messenger.

I have paid over a thousand dollars an hour for an escort. And I didn't want sex. I just needed a date for an impromptu out of town function. She was a bit taken aback, for a spell, that I refused her services, but I don't pay for sex. I am much too old fashioned. I don't want sex without love.

And I agree, prostitution is an honorable profession, as long as the prostitute isn't irresponsibly infecting others with STDs.

In my book even an Honorverse sex slave is honorable, she's doing it to stay alive!

crewdude48 wrote:

MsBekky wrote:cthia, I am glad that in the Honorverse, people have gotten past your view. A woman voluntarily selling sex is just as honorable as selling a pedicure or selling paper filing. A prostitute is not a sex slave. That is not subjective.

Actually, MsBekky, I think that you may have just pointed out the disconnect that cthia and I were having. For him (and I still think he has it backwards) and possibly in what ever social group he is in, sex slave could very well be a euphemism for prostitute. In the Honorverse, it is most definitely not. No one in the novels would ever hear "sex slave" and think of an escort, a prostitute, or a hooker.

Ok. Within the realm of the Honorverse, readers, having benefit of all of the information about Mesan sex slaves perhaps shouldn't associate sex slave with prostitute. But the assholes who cater to Mesa, like Filareta, do indeed feel like they are prostitutes (as they are paying dearly) or else their conscience should prevent it.

I keep challenging all of you to do a free experiment. All of you ignore it.

I don't think my comment can derail this thread any further...

cthia, I feel you you mix up association of words with euphemism. If I was asked what I came to my mind when I hear 'sex slave', 'prostitute' came pretty fast. This does not mean it is an euphemism, I can't conceive anyone speaking of a 'sex slave' to avoid speaking of a 'prostitute'.
I associate much worse connotations to sex slave than prostitute.
Prostitute could be used as an euphemism for sex slave, but the other way around I really can't see it.

cthia wrote:And I say again, at three-thousand dollars a night some men are going to expect a high class prostitute to be their sexual slave.

They had better expect her to be their sexual partner, unless they contracted for her to be the submissive partner in a Dom/Sub encounter. And even then, it is really the sub who is in charge.

I have to say, I find your assumptions offensive. Equating women who are forced to do something due to either violence or other forms of control to people who are doing a job is absolutely horrible, even if you do it subconsciously.

Sexual slavery is absolutely horrible and should be stopped at all costs. Prostitution is a job. If your brain equates the two, I think you need a new brain. At the very least, some retraining would not go awry.

and as for this:

cthia wrote:Ok. Within the realm of the Honorverse, readers, having benefit of all of the information about Mesan sex slaves perhaps shouldn't associate sex slave with prostitute. But the assholes who cater to Mesa, like Filareta, do indeed feel like they are prostitutes (as they are paying dearly) or else their conscience should prevent it.

This is even more offensive.

The reason that people like Filereta use sex slaves is because they have no conscience. They think of them as OBJECTS, not as people; as SEX DOLLS, not as prostitutes. If they want to choke a sex slave to death as they climax, all they have to do is pay replacement costs. They probably don't even need to pay an extra 10% to violently rape a 12 year old Mesan sex slave.

The only reason you would need a sex slave when escorts are common, clean, and legal, would be if you wanted to do something unspeakably horrible to them, or if you just wanted to own someone, down to the souls of their feet. Almost ANYTHING that does not cause long term and significant damage is available legally. Why else would you need a slave?

Whitecold wrote:I don't think my comment can derail this thread any further...

cthia, I feel you you mix up association of words with euphemism. If I was asked what I came to my mind when I hear 'sex slave', 'prostitute' came pretty fast. This does not mean it is an euphemism, I can't conceive anyone speaking of a 'sex slave' to avoid speaking of a 'prostitute'.
I associate much worse connotations to sex slave than prostitute.
Prostitute could be used as an euphemism for sex slave, but the other way around I really can't see it.

Thank you! Without trying, you helped my argument. You say prostitution came fast to you when you thought of sex slave? That's my point! And it is also the point of euphemisms.

Euphemism: A word used in the place of another word considered too harsh, too blunt, embarassing.

Prostitute is much too harsh, too blunt, embarassing, because of the negative connotation that goes along with it. Again, I don't make the rules.

I can see a modern day teenage girl sporting a T-shirt that says sex slave. Proudly she would wear it. Get kicked out of school for it. But I cannot see anyone wanting to wear a T-shirt saying prostitute. Again sex slave is similar to 'boy toy', that Madonna made famous and put on belts and sold them, IMHO.

America and the world is experiencing an epidemic in human trafficking. Young girls are kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery for the sole purpose of prostitution!

You don't have to transit a termini to find it. It is right here in our own back yard!

It's alright to visit the Honorverse, but you live on Terra 2014.

They are both etymological, synonymous bus rides!

I respect all of your opinions.
I am done with this conversation.

captainofthelist wrote:Every time I read the title Battle Fleet, I cannot help but think it's such a euphemism. After all- BF never fought any battles, aside from policial and bureaucratic infighting within the SL.

Can you think of any other Honorverse Euphemisms?

Actually the term "Battle Fleet" is more like an Oxymoron -- like "Government Assistance" or "Microsoft Works"

-- Stewart

cthia, you got it exactly the wrong way around. For me sex slave is much worse a word than prostitute.

Whitecold wrote:cthia, you got it exactly the wrong way around. For me sex slave is much worse a word than prostitute.

I happen to agree with you, because "sex slave" is a subset of what most people mean by "prostitute", although the latter term carries some connotations beyond its definition.

But cthia's contention is that "much worse" is an entirely subjective criterion. That we disagree with the hierarchy of "worse" only proves that contention true.


That subjectivity fits into the Euphemism Treadmill to which I referred before; we can be told to call people "prostitutes" today, then once we do that, we'll be told it's old and busted; "sex slave" is the new hotness. Since there will always be someone who thinks your euphemism is worse than theirs, it never ends (until you decide to get off the treadmill.)