(Spoiler warning) Does everyone have Clyntahn figured wrong?

Does everyone have Clyntahn figured wrong? On the one hand we have one of the group of four (perhaps it was Duchairn) thinking that Clyntahn would be willing to Attest or Dispensate anything to win the war against the Empire of Charis. On the other hand we have Thirsk protecting Zhwaigair for his innovative thinking about tools of war, and another member of the group of four (perhaps Duchairn again) protecting a bishop, whose name escapes me, for his innovative thinking about methods of manufacturing.

I can see how both could be possible at the same time. I mean, if Clyntahn adopts rule by iron fist, then he can't choose the advantages of such rule together with the advantages of rule by consent. He has to accept the disadvantages of rule by iron fist, and people hiding or suppressing their thinking may be one of those disadvantages.

But I'm curious whether Clyntahn isn't more black-and-white in his thinking: everything that helps me is acceptable and anything opposed is forbidden. As such, nothing Zhwaigair and the bishop were to do, short of opposing Clyntahn, should be forbidden.

~Tonto

IMO like anybody else, Clyntahn has mixed motives.

First IMO, like many Schuelerites he is strongly suspicious of change/innovation (both in ways of doing things and in ways of thinking).

Second IMO, he see the threat that Charis represents to both his power and the Church's power so he's willing to allow some innovation in order to defeat Charis.

Third IMO, while allowing some innovation in order to win the war, he may be strongly aware that if the "genie of innovation" is unbottled, it will be extremely difficult to bottle it back up when the war has been won.

Tonto Silerheels wrote:Does everyone have Clyntahn figured wrong? On the one hand we have one of the group of four (perhaps it was Duchairn) thinking that Clyntahn would be willing to Attest or Dispensate anything to win the war against the Empire of Charis. On the other hand we have Thirsk protecting Zhwaigair for his innovative thinking about tools of war, and another member of the group of four (perhaps Duchairn again) protecting a bishop, whose name escapes me, for his innovative thinking about methods of manufacturing.

I can see how both could be possible at the same time. I mean, if Clyntahn adopts rule by iron fist, then he can't choose the advantages of such rule together with the advantages of rule by consent. He has to accept the disadvantages of rule by iron fist, and people hiding or suppressing their thinking may be one of those disadvantages.

But I'm curious whether Clyntahn isn't more black-and-white in his thinking: everything that helps me is acceptable and anything opposed is forbidden. As such, nothing Zhwaigair and the bishop were to do, short of opposing Clyntahn, should be forbidden.

~Tonto

There's also the "control freak" factor. *IF* anyone is doing any "innovating", he wants it to be on his own initiative--and someone he has completely under his thumb.

Thus the "Agents Inquisiteur", etc.

Tonto Silerheels wrote:snip
But I'm curious whether Clyntahn isn't more black-and-white in his thinking: everything that helps me is acceptable and anything opposed is forbidden. As such, nothing Zhwaigair and the bishop were to do, short of opposing Clyntahn, should be forbidden.

~Tonto

Perhaps Clyntahn is more like the character in "The War God's Own". Forgot the knight's name but he launched Vaijon at Bahzell. He was described as being a fanatic. He believed that whatever he did was approved by the War God. If this wasn't so, his god would have told him otherwise.

I think that's the way Clyntahn thinks. Whatever he does is approved by God because he sits on the Grand Inquisitor's seat. So long as he has that seat, God must approve of his actions. If he no longer has God's approval, then he would no longer be in his position.

From that perspective, everything is indeed black and white. Which things are black and which are white depend on Clyntahn's needs. That includes innovation and innovative thinkers. They are worthwhile when he needs them to fight the jihad and an unacceptible disruptive force once the Charisian threat has been removed. In the end the 2 points of view are driven by the same core outlook.

ultimately I think that Clyntahn will be willing to give dispensations to anything he thinks he needs to win the Jihad, however once the Jihad is won, all those people who were innovative and gave him the tools he needed to win are now dangerously heretical and need to be disposed of before they contaminate the rest of the people.

Tonto Silerheels wrote:Does everyone have Clyntahn figured wrong? On the one hand we have one of the group of four (perhaps it was Duchairn) thinking that Clyntahn would be willing to Attest or Dispensate anything to win the war against the Empire of Charis. On the other hand we have Thirsk protecting Zhwaigair for his innovative thinking about tools of war, and another member of the group of four (perhaps Duchairn again) protecting a bishop, whose name escapes me, for his innovative thinking about methods of manufacturing.

I can see how both could be possible at the same time. I mean, if Clyntahn adopts rule by iron fist, then he can't choose the advantages of such rule together with the advantages of rule by consent. He has to accept the disadvantages of rule by iron fist, and people hiding or suppressing their thinking may be one of those disadvantages.

But I'm curious whether Clyntahn isn't more black-and-white in his thinking: everything that helps me is acceptable and anything opposed is forbidden. As such, nothing Zhwaigair and the bishop were to do, short of opposing Clyntahn, should be forbidden.

~Tonto

His hypocrisy and meglomania are what defines the man IMO. Plus the jealousy of anything that detracts from his glory and authority. A self-deified maggot, in short

Tonto Silerheels wrote:Does everyone have Clyntahn figured wrong? On the one hand we have one of the group of four (perhaps it was Duchairn) thinking that Clyntahn would be willing to Attest or Dispensate anything to win the war against the Empire of Charis. On the other hand we have Thirsk protecting Zhwaigair for his innovative thinking about tools of war, and another member of the group of four (perhaps Duchairn again) protecting a bishop, whose name escapes me, for his innovative thinking about methods of manufacturing.

I can see how both could be possible at the same time. I mean, if Clyntahn adopts rule by iron fist, then he can't choose the advantages of such rule together with the advantages of rule by consent. He has to accept the disadvantages of rule by iron fist, and people hiding or suppressing their thinking may be one of those disadvantages.

But I'm curious whether Clyntahn isn't more black-and-white in his thinking: everything that helps me is acceptable and anything opposed is forbidden. As such, nothing Zhwaigair and the bishop were to do, short of opposing Clyntahn, should be forbidden.

~Tonto

What Thirsk is protecting Zhwaigair from is shall we say the overly sensitive Inquisitor or religious zealot who doesn't want any innovations. And it's Mahgwiar who is protecting Brother whatever at St Kaimans.

His hypocrisy and meglomania are what defines the man IMO. Plus the jealousy of anything that detracts from his glory and authority. A self-deified maggot, in short

For an example of someone who was really smart in some ways and yet totally blind in others, and whose paranoia both kept him in power and at the same time undermined the potential of the nation on which his power rested, look at Joseph Stalin. At the start of WWII the Russian army was a mess because, in his paranoia, Stalin had eviscerated his officer corps. When faced with the possibility of defeat, he allowed a few good generals enough leeway to use their own initiative, and they achieved some victories that went beyond just letting the Russian winter do its thing on the Germans. Then after the war, it was back to "Stalin is God." But he, too, couldn't put the genie back in the bottle. He may have "taken over a country with wooden plows and left it with atomic piles," but the general education that was necessary to make Russia a modern industrial country ended the era of a nation that would revere the sort of "godfather" persona that Stalin projected.

I think Clyntahn is facing the same dilemma. I don't expect him to act consistently. The closer he gets to having his world come apart, the more he will be willing to accept answers that will challenge the proscriptions. He will decide that he can put things right after he wins the war. What he WON'T accept is an innovator or innovation that directly undermines or threatens HIM. He will go with success. If Thrisk's innovations bring victory, he will put up with him no matter what. If Thrisk is defeated, he will use that excuse to eliminate the admiral and anyone associated with that defeat, such as the poor, earnest lieutenant. IMO. as the pressure on Clyntahn builds, we will see an increase in very calculated, very coldly reasoned insanity punctuated by fits of rage as seen in LaMA.

I don't think Clynthian hates inovations or how those inovations make people's lives easier.

I think he hates innovaters themselves, and the mindset that lets them question the proscriptions. I think he subconsiously realizes that if a person can use there brain to analyize a physical world problem and find a beter solution to it that they may do the same to God and the church representing him. Rember the churchs structure as it stands, particularly his place in it is an administrative "innovation", as is the entire Vicarate system.

Of course anything that solidifys his own power or expands it must be divine will so thats not really innovation.

I don't think Clynthian hates inovations or how those inovations make people's lives easier.

I think he hates innovaters themselves, and the mindset that lets them question the proscriptions. I think he subconsiously realizes that if a person can use there brain to analyize a physical world problem and find a beter solution to it that they may do the same to God and the church representing him. Rember the churchs structure as it stands, particularly his place in it is an administrative "innovation", as is the entire Vicarate system.

Of course anything that solidifys his own power or expands it must be divine will so thats not really innovation.