Steam Engines

packhunter wrote:Charis has an entire feild of study devoted to presure at their university. They have developed a basic understanding of the science involved. Even so and with OWL checking on the parts that first industrial sized Steam engine had the potential to explode. Charis has had no such problems as of yet because the people responsable have the foreknowledge necesary to avoid catastrophy.

Know imagine the church tech gurus look at these steam engine plans. Figure its to complex so they try to do something simpler. Ok but what happens when they forget to add things like presure release valves. Or don't know how strong to make particular parts that are under presure because they don't have any knowledge about what kind of bad things can go wrong. How many people are going to die when these things explode?

If anyone's been keeping up with the 1632 universe there was a secene where some sabotures basically put a bomb in a steam engines fire box. THey figured it was going to go bomb and seriously mess things up. Unfortunatly they were still in the danger close area when all that presurized steam was released. They died Horribaly as did several hundred others. More would have died if they'd rushed into that accident cite to help if an up-timer conversant with steam accidents hadn't stoped them.

So now back to Safehold how many massive industrial style accidents are going to happen in Clynthian's drive to aquire a steam engine? Now compare that to the lack of any accidents amoungst the Charisians. People are going to be woundering on what God really approves. Or on who Shan Wei is offering a helping hand too.

Icarium wrote:In a nutshell, it really depends on their steel quality.

If they have good steel quality, sure. If they don't, then they will have really low-power steam engines that won't be useful for what they WANT to use them for. Low-end steam engines are AWESOME, but for infrastructure. Clyntahn doesn't give a fig for that, even if it would in the long run vastly improve the war effort.

n7axw wrote:

Icarium wrote:In a nutshell, it really depends on their steel quality.

If they have good steel quality, sure. If they don't, then they will have really low-power steam engines that won't be useful for what they WANT to use them for. Low-end steam engines are AWESOME, but for infrastructure. Clyntahn doesn't give a fig for that, even if it would in the long run vastly improve the war effort.

The key thing that the Temple side must resolve is to be able to do precision machine work. They have the formula for the steel, although it is questionable whether they can come up with it in useful quantities. But doing precision machining is something it took Howsmyn years to be able to do, even with help from Owl and Merlin. I don't think that the Temple has a clue or a prayer as to how to go about that at least in the short to intermediate term. And without it...no useful steam engines.

Don

n7axw wrote:Hi JMS,
Pokermind seems to be to be the most knowlegeable poster on this thread on this subject. Go back and look at this post of 3/12. What he describes there is a low pressure steam engine that if it avoided the problem with machining was probably using leather gaskets. The thing is huge, sometimes filling buildings. The output? Between 5-15 hp. Now visualize a lawn mower. That is less than the average rider.

Now imagine getting this monstrosity aboard one of Thirst's screw galleys along with the coal and water needed to make the thing go. I don't think that it works. Presuming it to be possible at all. the galley has become so heavy and ungainly as to have lost all of the advantages that it was originally designed to exploit to start with. Btter to stick with hand cranks!

Don

AirTech wrote:

n7axw wrote:Hi JMS,
Pokermind seems to be to be the most knowlegeable poster on this thread on this subject. Go back and look at this post of 3/12. What he describes there is a low pressure steam engine that if it avoided the problem with machining was probably using leather gaskets. The thing is huge, sometimes filling buildings. The output? Between 5-15 hp. Now visualize a lawn mower. That is less than the average rider.

Now imagine getting this monstrosity aboard one of Thirst's screw galleys along with the coal and water needed to make the thing go. I don't think that it works. Presuming it to be possible at all. the galley has become so heavy and ungainly as to have lost all of the advantages that it was originally designed to exploit to start with. Btter to stick with hand cranks!

Don

For coastal defense efficiency is irrelevant, a day's coal is all you need, weight and volume are important but 20hp will get you a movable ship and outrun any oared ship ever built over a significant distance (the best an an oarsman can deliver is about a 1/4hp per 100kg so 20hp requires 80 oarsmen and 8 tons - well within the capabilities of a single cylinder engine and boiler combination). I believe however the first impact will be on industrial power plants supplementing water wheels and pumping water from mines - needed as they go deeper to meet military production requirements.

n7axw wrote:Hi JMS,
Pokermind seems to be to be the most knowlegeable poster on this thread on this subject. Go back and look at this post of 3/12. What he describes there is a low pressure steam engine that if it avoided the problem with machining was probably using leather gaskets. The thing is huge, sometimes filling buildings. The output? Between 5-15 hp. Now visualize a lawn mower. That is less than the average rider.

Now imagine getting this monstrosity aboard one of Thirst's screw galleys along with the coal and water needed to make the thing go. I don't think that it works. Presuming it to be possible at all. the galley has become so heavy and ungainly as to have lost all of the advantages that it was originally designed to exploit to start with. Btter to stick with hand cranks!

Don