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What do SD division commanders do?

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What do SD division commanders do?
Post by Pyre Light   » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:35 pm

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A six ship SD squadron has an admiral and staff for squadron command, and three admirals and staff for division command. What do the division commanders do that justifies diverting them from other jobs in an era when the RMN is desperate for trained personnel? Do they send individual SD divisions off independently often enough to need an admiral in command of each one? Is it just a full employment program for the flag ranks?
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Re: What do SD division commanders do?
Post by munroburton   » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:08 pm

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Pyre Light wrote:A six ship SD squadron has an admiral and staff for squadron command, and three admirals and staff for division command. What do the division commanders do that justifies diverting them from other jobs in an era when the RMN is desperate for trained personnel? Do they send individual SD divisions off independently often enough to need an admiral in command of each one? Is it just a full employment program for the flag ranks?


A divisional flag staff is a handful of people compared to the crew for a SD(P) or a BC(L/P). Moreover, since every SD(P) is built with some flag accommodations, it's worth the relatively small additional expense to make sure a squadron commander has backups. Not a minor consideration when a single superdreadnought masses more than a battlecruiser squadron - a BatDiv CO commands nearly twice the tonnage than Sarnow had at Hancock.

It's meant to prevent the kind of breakdown in the command chain that occurred at the Battle of Hancock, with command falling upon Captains. Unfortunately, the RMN was particularly unlucky in that battle to lose its flagships. Had the flagships survived and their division mates died, the battle wouldn't have been different(assuming the next senior flag officer held the task group together for Danislav's trap), but Young's court martial would have been much shorter without the technicalities getting in the way.
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Re: What do SD division commanders do?
Post by Uroboros   » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:11 pm

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We've seen many instances of division commanders being split off to other systems, indepedent of their nominal commanders. As well, it gives a very clear, unambiguous chain of command in battle when the Admiral becomes incapacitated or loses their life, which seems to be a fairly common occurance in Honorverse.

Besides, the need for Admirals is pretty high during wartime, and the doubling up on admirals and their staff isn't as huge as you might think. The admiral and staff is miniscule in comparison to the crew requirements of SDs, even modern, highly automated ones.
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Re: What do SD division commanders do?
Post by kzt   » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:44 pm

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A traditional SD division has 10-12,000 crew. So essentially the better part of an army division.
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Re: What do SD division commanders do?
Post by MAD-4A   » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:27 am

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Uroboros wrote:We've seen many instances of division commanders being split off to other systems, indepedent of their nominal commanders. As well, it gives a very clear, unambiguous chain of command in battle when the Admiral becomes incapacitated or loses their life, which seems to be a fairly common occurance in Honorverse…
A real world example of how this is important was the Battle of the Yellow Sea 08/10/1904. When Admiral Vitgeft and his immediate staff were killed, the second in command attempted to take control of the fleet but his signal mast was shot off disrupting his ability to take command and this caused the Russian battle-line to break up.

Having these extra Admirals also provides a pool of experience to pull new squadron commanders from.
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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Re: What do SD division commanders do?
Post by wholf359   » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:29 pm

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What makes the difference between having an admiral be a SD division commander and a BC squadron commander? From text there both usually rear admirals. Which would be more career enhancing? The in the wall SD division or the independent BC raiding squadron?
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Re: What do SD division commanders do?
Post by Alistair   » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:51 pm

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wholf359 wrote:What makes the difference between having an admiral be a SD division commander and a BC squadron commander? From text there both usually rear admirals. Which would be more career enhancing? The in the wall SD division or the independent BC raiding squadron?


I suspect most would prefer to get a BC sqaudron- independent command-
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Re: What do SD division commanders do?
Post by munroburton   » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:59 am

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Alistair wrote:
wholf359 wrote:What makes the difference between having an admiral be a SD division commander and a BC squadron commander? From text there both usually rear admirals. Which would be more career enhancing? The in the wall SD division or the independent BC raiding squadron?


I suspect most would prefer to get a BC sqaudron- independent command-


Hence White Haven and Webster chuckling over giving Sarnow Nike and BC squadron 5. I believe howling from other junior flag officers was mentioned. :P
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Re: What do SD division commanders do?
Post by Dafmeister   » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:42 am

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Alistair wrote:
wholf359 wrote:What makes the difference between having an admiral be a SD division commander and a BC squadron commander? From text there both usually rear admirals. Which would be more career enhancing? The in the wall SD division or the independent BC raiding squadron?


I suspect most would prefer to get a BC sqaudron- independent command-


I think it would depend on the admiral in question. 'Fighting' admirals like Honor, White Haven and Sarnow would definitely prefer the BC squadron because it'll be worked harder and present more opportunities to prove themselves. Political admirals, on the other hand, would likely prefer the SD division and the networking and patronage opportunities from being stationed in a task force or fleet.
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Re: What do SD division commanders do?
Post by Mitchell, Esq.   » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:41 am

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It depends on the time and the task.

It can be very career enhancing to be a 10th fleet division commander as you go all over hell and creation under ADM. Gold Peaks.

It can also be very ho-hum to your career as a BC squadron commander assigned to home fleet because you are not getting into it. (Well, mostly...)
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