whole star nation from scratch fleet question

Without access to Manticore's R&D or similar, I think the capabilities of a home-grown Navy would be closer to the pre-Alliance GSN. The best money can buy are surplus SLN warships - mainly destroyers and light cruisers, possibly with an occasional very old heavy cruiser.

Faith-class System Defense Unit

Mass: 11,250 tons
Dimensions: 138 × 23 × 21 m
Acceleration: 409.3 G (4.014 kps²)
80% Accel: 327.5 G (3.211 kps²)
Broadside: 12M, 1L, 1AC
Chase: 1L, 1AC
Service Life: 1891–1907

vs.

Zion-class destroyer (pre-Alliance)

Mass: 65,250 tons
Dimensions: 346 × 41 × 24 m
Acceleration: 525.5 G (5.154 kps²)
80% Accel: 420.4 G (4.123 kps²)
Broadside: 4M, 2L, 2CM, 3AC
Chase: 1L, 2AC
Number Built: 3
Service Life: 1879–1905

vs.

Austin Grayson-class cruiser

Mass: 91,750 tons
Dimensions: 394 × 41 × 32 m
Acceleration: 519.4 G (5.094 kps²)
80% Accel: 415.6 G (4.075 kps²)
Broadside: 5M, 3L, 3CM, 3AC
Chase: 1M, 1L, 1CM, 1AC
Number Built: 2
Service Life: 1880–1904

As you can see, despite being designed a good decade after the destroyer and cruiser, each LAC is an inferior unit. However, if eight Faiths can be deployed instead of one Austin, the opening missile salvo in a fleet engagement would be roughly 20 times heavier for the same amount of tonnage, at the expense of not being able to contribute to a subsequent missile salvoes.

Cronicler, the Series 282 was the first LAC in the galaxy to achieve those accelerations. Check House of Steel for the numbers for the older Manticoran LACs. The Highlander class had a max acceleration of 409.3 gees. That's slower than the contemporary Samothrace superdreadnought (at 416.6 gees).

To me it seems that the galaxy can be a very dangerous place for a single star system without the resourses to support a good deterent. Manticore only survived by a combination of the foresightedness of their founders which left them financially in better order than most single system planets and the fortuitious oresence of the later discovered junction. That provided the resourses for them to build the navy they needed to survive. In the main they wisely invested those resourses into the buildup of a strong financial sector and strong merchant marine that created additional resourses, eventually making Manticore a very rich system that could afford to protect itself.

For a poor system, I wonder if being poor might not be its best defence. If you don't have a pot to relieve yourself in, there really isn't anything to plunder, then why bother? Otherwise if you are worth plundering, then maybe you should be looking around for allies and chipping in what you can come up with to pool with others for some sort of creditable deterrent. Maybe start with a few light cruisers to help make the local sector inhospitable to pirates and avoid big elaborate ships that would be expensive to support and wouldn't really deter a credible opponent.

This is really what Grayson did after the destruction of its navy in the final conflict with Masada. They survived by allying with Manticore who was looking both for strategic depth and basing as they gird themselves for the conflict with Haven. Both systems benefited as Manticorian investment helped build Grayson's economy with the result that Grayson ended up with a very credible navy of its own. Or think about Marsh. That is probably an even better example of a nation, after being victimized by pirates was with comparatively minimal investment went from being easy pickings to being able to police its own neighborhood.

The final thing to consider here is who one's potential opponents are. If you are facing the OFS or the People's Repubic in predatory mode there might not be much you can do in the final analysis. But if what you are facing is another star system playing the neignborhood bully that becomes a different matter. And if you are working on building up a worth while merchant marine, that is another matter again. What force mix would be worth building up is highly situational depending both local ability and need.

Don

North Korea is very poor. The leaders of North Korea lives very well indeed. So being a citizen of poor planet doesn't mean that your new rulers can't live like kings. It just means that you get to eat grass and lick their boots while they do.

SWM;
Wasn't it 409gs vs 333gs?
I mean I thought 409 was the non-redlined speed?



Kzt;
Careful mate, you are dancing at the edge of a tarpit.

kzt wrote:North Korea is very poor. The leaders of North Korea lives very well indeed. So being a citizen of poor planet doesn't mean that your new rulers can't live like kings. It just means that you get to eat grass and lick their boots while they do.

North Korea is a hallow shell, a military looking for a country. They really couldn't stand up to a serious opponent. But they could inflict one whale of a pile of damage going down.

Don

Cronicler wrote:Jonathan_S ;
Only have access to Novels so I can't give any definitive answer or info from jayne's and similar sources.

That said, my ramblings were based on the assumption of roughly 1850/First Havenite War level TL (or their export variants) and a solar system that is somewhat between the Verge (so no FF intervention) and Havenite Sector . Change tech level or location or provide a specific foundation date and I would have to scrap my guesstimates and start over.

Here's the relevant sentences from House of Steel:

House of Steel, Series 282 light attack craft wrote:Perhaps most notably, the Series 282 was the first LAC to mount an impeller ring powerful enough to accelerate it to the limits of its inertial compensator. This class was the first to serve as testbeds for the early second generation compensator, raising its maximum acceleration to just over 600 G.

arduskaine;
I just re-read your original post and noticed that we went a bit off-topic here. Normal for us but probably not what you need.



The amount of Aux craft depends on how many missions your star nation has outside it's own solar system.
At a bare minimum, a single converted tramp freighter (1Mt.ish) that lugs around a semi-decent* repair/fabrication unit for emergencies, extra bulk supplies, a trauma ward and some critical supplies could be enough.

*The machinery doesn't need to be any different from what you have in a CA's shop. You just need the additional hangar space to fab stuff without "British Camper Van" dance.


If possible, I would like to have at least the following:
2x 1 Mt freighters configured as Repair Ship/Fleet Collier
1x 6+Mt freighter configured as Mobile Drydock/Shipyard
1+x 1 Mt passenger liner configured as troopship/colonyship
1x 4+Mt freighter with navy grade shielding, compensators and drive, configured as a minelayer.
1x DD (preferably an old unit) configured as mine clearing vessel (enlarged sensor suite, armoured hammerhead, extra pdcs, replaced missile tubes etc.)


After that, the list gets a bit fuzzy.
-A hospital ship is quite nice but do you have enough off-world presence to justify it?
-Do you need to sustain ops in another star system (like the occupation of Masada)? If so, a dedicated supply/mail hauler is probably a good idea.
-Can you manage to generate enough funding by local donations to pay for an extra warship? If possible, a "civilian" survey ship would be nice.

SWM, Vince;

Yes, I do seem to have goofed a bit concerning LAC speeds. However, it seems that the warship composition was not what the OP was actually requesting . So I'll shut up about it unless you would like to start another topic and dig into the nuts and bolts of naval force composition for system xyz66?

Let's use Marsh (which becomes Sidemore Station) as a prototype, and the Talbott Sector as an example. Warnicke's outdated cruiser squadron (by RMN standards) still took over, so you need enough of a mobile and system defense force to deter medium size attackers.

But let's say astrographically you're the most delicious target in nearby space, and weakly defended by comparison. Now you want an HMS Hexapuma style ship or a couple ships to go out there and do some neighbor making and bad-guy walloping.

You need enough supply train to not have to always withdraw your warships to one central node for resupply and repair, as that also avoids the problem of blockade. To use an example, what we could call the "battle across the channel" was the critical points in the Napoleonic and European theaters of both World Wars, precisely because a free Britain's fighting forces could be mostly continuously resupplied so long as the opp force "European fleets" could be contained.