Cupid

cthia wrote:
I agree rose, at least on an emotional level Tom would be perfect for Eloise.

But it's the political considerations/ramifications that worries me.

I don't know how Haven's command structure works, or if they entertain their own version of the Articles Of War, yet it seems Eloise and Tom coming together in that manner would represent a conflict of interest on Haven's behalf.

That would represent an unbalance of power, wouldn't it?
Eloise and Tom = Protector of Grayson (in power) loosely?

Strictly speaking, yes.

But honestly? I think it would only be a problem if those outside the GA's inner circle knew about it. And if there's one thing we know about Eloise Pritchart, it's that she can hide her feelings no matter how desperately in love she is.

As for Tom Theisman - well, he convinced Oscar Saint-Just to hand him Capital Fleet, after all.

My point is, in principle, I can see your point. But in practice? I think Tom Theisman and Eloise Pritchart are the last people in the universe who would allow their own feelings to jeopardize the Republic they gave everything to rebuild.

roseandheather wrote:

cthia wrote:
I agree rose, at least on an emotional level Tom would be perfect for Eloise.

But it's the political considerations/ramifications that worries me.

I don't know how Haven's command structure works, or if they entertain their own version of the Articles Of War, yet it seems Eloise and Tom coming together in that manner would represent a conflict of interest on Haven's behalf.

That would represent an unbalance of power, wouldn't it?
Eloise and Tom = Protector of Grayson (in power) loosely?

Strictly speaking, yes.

But honestly? I think it would only be a problem if those outside the GA's inner circle knew about it. And if there's one thing we know about Eloise Pritchart, it's that she can hide her feelings no matter how desperately in love she is.

As for Tom Theisman - well, he convinced Oscar Saint-Just to hand him Capital Fleet, after all.

My point is, in principle, I can see your point. But in practice? I think Tom Theisman and Eloise Pritchart are the last people in the universe who would allow their own feelings to jeopardize the Republic they gave everything to rebuild.

I know that and you know that but I am not so sure the political entities of Haven would.

The two of them together could potentially morph into the kind of power base wielded by Oscar St. Just.

And their Constitution should have specific constraints in place to prevent that from happening.

And I do NOT want Eloise to have to contend with another hidden affair.

If she finds love again, I want it shippable, printable, and readable anywhere in the galaxy.

cthia wrote:And I do NOT want Eloise to have to contend with another hidden affair.

If she finds love again, I want it shippable, printable, and readable anywhere in the galaxy.

That's a noble sentiment, and I understand why you feel that way - but does Eloise want it "shippable, printable, and readable anywhere in the galaxy"? She never has been one to display her feelings openly in front of anyone she doesn't absolutely trust.

The fact is, as President she really doesn't have a lot of romantic options at this point. If she falls in love with a Manticoran, she'll be slammed for falling in love with a foreigner. Ditto a Grayson. Anyone she trusts is already going to be in her 'inner circle' of government advisers, which makes them off-limits too.

But the main point - and this is crucial - is that I believe it will be years before she is ready to actually be in a relationship with someone. I can very easily see her and Tom, both aware that they're quietly in love with each other, actively choosing not to have a relationship until it's actually feasible. Eloise needs to heal, and they both have far too much to do with the Grand Alliance. By the time the Solarian war is over and they've obliterated the Alignment for good, she may well be ready to step down as President, and then they can turn their minds to the future with no unfinished business behind them.

Remember, it's only been a year since she lost Javier - and Eloise did not love with less than her whole heart. Hers is the kind of grief that takes years to heal from. As much as I would love for her and Tom to turn to each other now - or soon - I don't think it's going to happen, because she won't be ready. Theirs is the kind of love that will take years to flower, but when it does, it is a blossom that will endure.

roseandheather wrote:

cthia wrote:And I do NOT want Eloise to have to contend with another hidden affair.

If she finds love again, I want it shippable, printable, and readable anywhere in the galaxy.

That's a noble sentiment, and I understand why you feel that way - but does Eloise want it "shippable, printable, and readable anywhere in the galaxy"? She never has been one to display her feelings openly in front of anyone she doesn't absolutely trust.

The fact is, as President she really doesn't have a lot of romantic options at this point. If she falls in love with a Manticoran, she'll be slammed for falling in love with a foreigner. Ditto a Grayson. Anyone she trusts is already going to be in her 'inner circle' of government advisers, which makes them off-limits too.

But the main point - and this is crucial - is that I believe it will be years before she is ready to actually be in a relationship with someone. I can very easily see her and Tom, both aware that they're quietly in love with each other, actively choosing not to have a relationship until it's actually feasible. Eloise needs to heal, and they both have far too much to do with the Grand Alliance. By the time the Solarian war is over and they've obliterated the Alignment for good, she may well be ready to step down as President, and then they can turn their minds to the future with no unfinished business behind them.

Remember, it's only been a year since she lost Javier - and Eloise did not love with less than her whole heart. Hers is the kind of grief that takes years to heal from. As much as I would love for her and Tom to turn to each other now - or soon - I don't think it's going to happen, because she won't be ready. Theirs is the kind of love that will take years to flower, but when it does, it is a blossom that will endure.

Perfectly paralleling Honor and White Haven.

But hearken, there may be uncontrollable outside forces that may act to...expedite affairs-of-their-heart.

The same undeniable force that played Cupid with Honor and White Haven.

Bonded Treecats saying...Get On With It Two-legs.
She loves you, you love her, drink some wine, eat some celery and do some push-ups already!

Rose of A-lly-ba-mmy,
Darn I can't get that Josey Wales song outta my head!

Forgive me peeps (no pun intended), but do you really think someone as seemingly reserved as Khumalo would be a good fit for Dame Estelle?

And I'm not asking this simply because I've got the hots for her!

I am Cupid, and our creed is similar to drug-dealers, we should never sample our own stash---but some babes are worth the trouble! Besides, you can't prove how I shot myself with an arrow!

I watch way too much boob-tube!

Anyways, seems like he'd bore her!

Anton Zilwicki and Lady Montaigne are the one single exception to this particular law of the universe.

cthia wrote:Rose of A-lly-ba-mmy,
Darn I can't get that Josey Wales song outta my head!

Forgive me peeps (no pun intended), but do you really think someone as seemingly reserved as Khumalo would be a good fit for Dame Estelle?

And I'm not asking this simply because I've got the hots for her!

I am Cupid, and our creed is similar to drug-dealers, we should never sample our own stash---but some babes are worth the trouble! Besides, you can't prove how I shot myself with an arrow!

I watch way too much boob-tube!

Anyways, seems like he'd bore her!

Anton Zilwicki and Lady Montaigne are the one single exception to this particular law of the universe.

You know, I really don't - and not just because I've got the hots for him as well as her.

Augustus Khumalo may be the least flashy Admiral you ever did see and a Conservative to boot, but he's far from boring. He's got a sly, understated sense of humor, but more importantly, he's got a good heart. Yes, he is reserved, but we've seen him loosen up, remember? And guess who was doing the loosening!

I think he'd be the perfect match for her, actually, because he's so seemingly stolid. He is stone, and she is fire. She draws all eyes to her; he blends into the wallpaper until quite suddenly he stops blending into the wallpaper. Dame Estelle has a lot on her shoulders, she's often going ten directions at once, and she has a fiery personality, for all she veils it in cool silk in public. Who better to be her anchor and her rock than Augustus Khumalo? He's not the sort to compete with her, and that's exactly what she needs. He's the one she can come back to, for advice or just for an ear to listen to her vent. He can match wits with her - and doesn't hesitate to do so - but he's patient, not at all flashy, and most importantly, he is a constant. The galaxy may be going to pieces around them and they never know what surprises are around the corner. I think he could very well become her constant in an ever-changing universe, and I think that Dame Estelle, who has been thrown shock after shock in the past couple of years and very much bears the weight of the whole Talbott Quadrant on her slender shoulders, would find that far, far more attractive than most people would expect.

roseandheather wrote:

cthia wrote:Rose of A-lly-ba-mmy,
Darn I can't get that Josey Wales song outta my head!

Forgive me peeps (no pun intended), but do you really think someone as seemingly reserved as Khumalo would be a good fit for Dame Estelle?

And I'm not asking this simply because I've got the hots for her!

I am Cupid, and our creed is similar to drug-dealers, we should never sample our own stash---but some babes are worth the trouble! Besides, you can't prove how I shot myself with an arrow!

I watch way too much boob-tube!

Anyways, seems like he'd bore her!

Anton Zilwicki and Lady Montaigne are the one single exception to this particular law of the universe.

You know, I really don't - and not just because I've got the hots for him as well as her.

Augustus Khumalo may be the least flashy Admiral you ever did see and a Conservative to boot, but he's far from boring. He's got a sly, understated sense of humor, but more importantly, he's got a good heart. Yes, he is reserved, but we've seen him loosen up, remember? And guess who was doing the loosening!

I think he'd be the perfect match for her, actually, because he's so seemingly stolid. He is stone, and she is fire. She draws all eyes to her; he blends into the wallpaper until quite suddenly he stops blending into the wallpaper. Dame Estelle has a lot on her shoulders, she's often going ten directions at once, and she has a fiery personality, for all she veils it in cool silk in public. Who better to be her anchor and her rock than Augustus Khumalo? He's not the sort to compete with her, and that's exactly what she needs. He's the one she can come back to, for advice or just for an ear to listen to her vent. He can match wits with her - and doesn't hesitate to do so - but he's patient, not at all flashy, and most importantly, he is a constant. The galaxy may be going to pieces around them and they never know what surprises are around the corner. I think he could very well become her constant in an ever-changing universe, and I think that Dame Estelle, who has been thrown shock after shock in the past couple of years and very much bears the weight of the whole Talbott Quadrant on her slender shoulders, would find that far, far more attractive than most people would expect.

In other words, someone should send them out on a double-date with Anton Zilwicki and Lady Montaigne because as matched-couples they are perfect.

And talk about like-personalities, Lady Montaigne and Dame Estelle outta hit it off nicely.

I'm sure they could have many a spot of tea, cuppa tea, afternoon or dinner tea.

If we're going to talk complementary personalities, the more I think about Lester and Michelle the more I like it. They're both of them 'cowboys' in a way, but much more sharply intelligent than I think even they themselves would give themselves credit for, and dedicated to their duty when it's time for them to give it.

I think, in fact, they'd make a delicious power couple, and the more I think about them, the more I hope it really does happen.

roseandheather wrote:...But certain other Havenites... I have to wonder, has Lester already met Michelle? And if he has, could he be secretly carrying a torch for the Queen's currently-absent cousin? Imagine what the smutsies would do with that - Haven's most senior active fleet commander in a romantic relationship with the Queen's first cousin, and a fleet commander herself?? They'd have a field day!

Michelle and Lester have meet, over dinner.

Storm From the Shadows wrote:
She thought about Theisman's dinner party. As promised, Admiral Redmont had been present, and under Theisman's watchful eye, Redmont had actually unbent to the point of telling a few modest jokes over the post-dinner wine. Michelle realized she still wasn't very high on his list of favorite people—not surprisingly, when Ajax had killed almost six thousand of his personnel—and he wasn't exactly likely to become her lifetime pen pal, either, given what had happened to her flagship. But at least the two of them had acquired a sense of mutual respect, and she was a bit surprised by how little bitterness there truly was in her feelings where he was concerned.

She hadn't had that sort of baggage with the other dinner guests. Admiral Lester Tourville had been something of a surprise. According to all of the reports she'd ever seen, he was supposed to be something of a loose warhead—one of those colorful, larger-than-life people who would always be far more at home on the command deck of a single battlecruiser fighting a ship-to-ship action somewhere (assuming he couldn't find the eyepatch, cutlass, and flintlock pistols he really wanted) rather than commanding a task force or a fleet. She should have realized those reports could scarcely be accurate, given his string of successes commanding those task forces and fleets. In fact, the only person who'd ever bloodied his nose was Honor, and as nearly as Michelle could tell, honors were about even between the two of them. A point which became much easier to understand when she finally had the opportunity to look into his eyes and see the shrewd, cool, calculating tactician hiding behind what she'd come to suspect was a carefully cultivated façade. In fact, she'd discovered she rather liked him, which she hadn't really expected to.

All things being equal, she was just as happy that she hadn't heard—then—about the masterful job Tourville had done of thoroughly trashing the Zanzibar System and its defenses.

Of course that was over a year ago and they are now in different quadrants, unless Lester takes his Second Fleet to Mesa while Michelle is still there. Oh well, we shall see...eventually. If rfc is merciful.

Michelle and Lester might have already met. Michelle has been a prisoner of war for a while in Haven space.Lester becomes a prisoner of war near the end of "At All Costs"It mentions at the start of "Mission of Honor" that Lester has been a prisoner of war for five months. Lester and Michelle might have met then or they could have met at Roger & Rivka's wedding.I think that Michelle might have returned to Manticore for that.She is Elizabeth Winton's cousin so she probably would have been invited. I think Lester was already there.So they might have had opportunity to meet and develop an attraction to each other.

roseandheather wrote:

bunyipbelle wrote:I have been wondering if one or more of our favourite Havenites might have a secret love. Cupid's arrow might have already struck and we don't know about it. In Haven people have good reasons to keep their romances secret.When Saint Just and Rob Pierre were in charge people feared that they or their loved one might be killed. Eloise Pritchard was Javier Giscard's peoples commissioner they would have both been killed had the wrong person discovered their relationship.
Even after Eloise becomes president there are still good reasons to keep a romance secret if you are a public figure.Haven has Smutsies!
" Smutsies - the modern heirs of the old pre-space paparazzi-had always had always been a particularly virulent fact of life in the peoples republic."
Javier Giscard and Eloise had "joint nightmares" about the smutsies discovering their romance.
If Eloise does find a new love she will be strongly tempted to keep the romance a secret. Who else might have a secret love?
The quotes are from At All Costs.

That's a very interesting question. And I admit that a part of me (a small part! Really!) is 'shipping Tom Theisman and Allen Higgins. (What?? )

Despite all my noise to the contrary, however - and secret hopes - I think it will be a few years yet before Eloise is even in a position to think about falling in love with someone else. When she lost Javier she lost part of herself, and that wound has to scar over - for it will never truly heal - before she's going to be thinking about a second love. (Which, of course, doesn't mean she hasn't been quietly falling in love with Tom all this time, and just isn't ready to be aware of it.)

(I would also like to point out that being adopted by a treecat would go a long way toward helping that healing process. *quietly nudges RFC*)

But certain other Havenites... I have to wonder, has Lester already met Michelle? And if he has, could he be secretly carrying a torch for the Queen's currently-absent cousin? Imagine what the smutsies would do with that - Haven's most senior active fleet commander in a romantic relationship with the Queen's first cousin, and a fleet commander herself?? They'd have a field day!