Future weapons based on LAMA small SPOILER.

pokermind wrote:Just to yank runsforcelery's tail and pull the Duckk's tail featers, if we didn't they might think we don't like them any more , the wheel-lock Gatling gun cartridge that Clynton might approve:



Come Percy it's time to leave this silly thread and return to Camelot before we give RFC and the Duckk a headache

Poker

Why not just take your iron shell and put the nipple for a standard percussion cap on it?

Another logical future weapon would be improved field artillery. We know from LAMA that Charis has now put breechloading 6 inch guns into production for the river ironclads. Furthermore, they have worked out the kinks on a shipboard hydro-pneumatic recoil system. They have not yet gotten smokeless powder into production, but they are heading rapidly in that direction.

It seems to me the next step would be putting these advances into land based field guns. Once Charis figures out how to engineer these developments into something small enough to fit into a land-based artillery carriage, they have everything they need to build something along the lines of the WW1 era French 75. Except, since Charis already has a 4 inch rifled muzzleloading cannon, they might want to stick with that caliber. Which would give them a bigger, heavier shell and most likely longer range than the historical French 75.

Gunny wrote:
Why not just take your iron shell and put the nipple for a standard percussion cap on it?

That's the original Gatling gun cartridge here is his patent drawing:



And here is a section drawing to the cartridge:



The other was a joke to make a wheel-lock Gatling gun when some whit two years ago suggested that I could not come up with a wheel-lock Gatling gun, never challenge a crazy gunsmith. Such a cartridge would be vary dangerous if it could be made to work at all.

I reused the drawing to fit within the proscriptions for good ol' Vicar Clynton.

Poker

Yes, you could certainly put in some kind of retarding hardware, but why?

The action would be difficult to build using Safehold technology. The feed system requires sheet metal linking in the belts with each link the little finger to hold the cartridges in place.

well IIRC it was the bolt shape which was used to regulate rate of fire of MG42 as per why to lower it you yourself pointed out that the metal may not be up to the standards to withstand high rate of fire so by lowering it you wont make barrel too hot, and with a quick barrel change you may have a workable weapon system.

You might be interested in watching this You Tube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh8lDgV993A It shows the firing of an 850 round burst out of an M60E4. Barrel technology moves on. But I wouldn't want to touch the thing just afterward.

been there and done that on C6, and had a second degree burns on palm of my right hand to prove it. But we had 6 ammo boxes likned together. As per ammo links I think it would be an easy task to make a die and have a pneumatic stumping machine making links by hundreds per minute as the steel doesn't have to be top quality

Damonby wrote:I don't believe this war is going to last long enough for machine guns to be developed. I also don't believe that they would be necessary.

If you look at the relative tech advantages that Charis has, it is hard for me to imagine that WW I style trench war stalemates are going to happen.

Why? Because both sides in WW I had relatively the same tech advancement in small arms and artillery, making it impossible for either side to dominate the battlefield for a long enough period of time to end trench warfare. Charis already has a large and widening head start in metallurgy and tech, in things like mortar production, recoil systems for artillery, metals capable of withstanding the bore pressures and stresses needed for rifled breech loading small arms and artillery, etc.

When a dug in AoG formation meets an ICA assault, they will have to contend with no artillery support (it having been eliminated by the superior firepower and range of ICA artillery) and be forced to keep their heads down in their trenches because of mortar fire and the fire of breech loading, magazine fed, bolt action rifles that in the latter stages of the war will be using ammo with smokeless powder.

This is such a complete disparity that IT WON'T MATTER if the AoG is dug in. Once any breach is created in an AoG trench, the whole thing gets rolled up. The AoG is not going to have machine guns to use to protect those trenches. They have so far to go to get to that stage that the war is already going to be over.

Please accept this as a gigantic IMO.

OTOH, consider that there are more than a million Harchonese troops that may be focused on one of the Siddarian fronts. Even if there is an effective coup against Clyntyn, that will only delay things for a month or two. The Harchongese, under CoGA leadership, is enough to overrun almost any defense existing at the end of LAMA. I don't doubt hundreds of thousands would die or be wounded, but as it stands now, they would push thru. Think of wave after wave of "Banzai" ("Long live the Emperor") attacks.

This assumes, of course, that the Charisians can't turn the entire force against their lords.

To stand up to that, they will need bolt action rifles and machine guns. They will need HE granades, smokeless-based artillery and mortar propellant, etc. They will have to counter CoGA angle guns. The only good news is that the GoGA forces will need time to move the people and supplies into position to attack. It won't be subtle.

Defeat the Harchongese, and the church will be ready to negotiate. But it ain't over yet.

-- Bob G

Hello,

Though I agree these 1 Million IHA troops will be a great threat, Charis has at least 2 big advantages against them:

1) According to textev, by May-June Charis should hit full production (Delthak, Maikelberg and Lake Lyhman combined) of 46,500 M96 magazine fed rifles per month and by summer smokeless cartridge production should have started. This means that, as summer progresses, the ICA will start to have a greater technological edge against the CoGA.

Additionally, even though we don't have text ev, this tech edge should be even greater since,
+ We know production of 6in breechloading artillery for the ICN started in late 896, so we can assume that production of 4in and/or 6in pieces for the ICA will start soon after that.
+ If smokeless rifle cartridges start production in summer 897, mortar and artillery smokeless rounds should not be far behind.

2) Static trench warfare is not in Charis' interests. They can trade space for time since Siddarmak is such a huge country complicating IHA logistics (canals are blown up as they retreat) and waiting until new weapons are available in numbers. Besides, according to RFC data dumps, the ICA is far more manouverable than its CoGA opponents, which is another factor against CoGA armies given the huge distances involved.

robertamgottlieb wrote:

Damonby wrote:OTOH, consider that there are more than a million Harchonese troops that may be focused on one of the Siddarian fronts.
..........
The Harchongese, under CoGA leadership, is enough to overrun almost any defense existing at the end of LAMA. I don't doubt hundreds of thousands would die or be wounded, but as it stands now, they would push thru.
..................
To stand up to that, they will need bolt action rifles and machine guns. They will need HE granades, smokeless-based artillery and mortar propellant, etc.
-- Bob G

The French 75mm was a breakthrough but it's 1897 technology and Howsmyn might be able to go straight to 1915-1917 artillery pieces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_1 ... _Schneider
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_inch_26_cwt_howitzer

Henry Brown wrote:Once Charis figures out how to engineer these developments into something small enough to fit into a land-based artillery carriage, they have everything they need to build something along the lines of the WW1 era French 75. Except, since Charis already has a 4 inch rifled muzzleloading cannon, they might want to stick with that caliber. Which would give them a bigger, heavier shell and most likely longer range than the historical French 75.

robertamgottlieb wrote:OTOH, consider that there are more than a million Harchonese troops that may be focused on one of the Siddarian fronts. Even if there is an effective coup against Clyntyn, that will only delay things for a month or two. The Harchongese, under CoGA leadership, is enough to overrun almost any defense existing at the end of LAMA. I don't doubt hundreds of thousands would die or be wounded, but as it stands now, they would push thru. Think of wave after wave of "Banzai" ("Long live the Emperor") attacks.

This assumes, of course, that the Charisians can't turn the entire force against their lords.

To stand up to that, they will need bolt action rifles and machine guns. They will need HE granades, smokeless-based artillery and mortar propellant, etc. They will have to counter CoGA angle guns. The only good news is that the GoGA forces will need time to move the people and supplies into position to attack. It won't be subtle.

Defeat the Harchongese, and the church will be ready to negotiate. But it ain't over yet.

-- Bob G

Hi Bob G,

I agree that the potential of a million Harghonese to cause problems for the ICA & RSA is not to be discounted.

However, I think that the tech available to the ICA and allies when they run into elements of those Harghonese is so great now that it's going to be a completely unequal fight.

As of the end of October 896 Charis is already producing M96, bolt action, magazine fed rifles. They are also producing newer version angle-guns with recoil devices. A host of additional river clads are also nearing the end of their construction and will be armed with modern rifled artillery.

IF, by the spring of 897, Green Valley has successfully completed a campaign against the northern AoG and is in control of Guarnak, or at the very least sitting astraddle the Guarnak-Sylmahn Canal with his back to Sylmahn Gap, he can be reinforced through the Gap, receive upgraded weapons and ammunition via canal straight from Siddar City, maybe even towed there by river clads who have in turn towed the weapons from Charis. Also, a whole bunch of newly formed RSA regiments that can be armed with the same weapons or hand me down Mandryn muzzle loaders can be sent to him. If he has 250,000 to 300,000 men, he can beat a million Harghonese IMHO.

Gwynt, where the Harchong contigent is based, looks to be the better part of 2,000 miles from Guarnak. Even after the canal system is repaired it is going to take time to move that many men and the material they need to fight with. They are actually much closer to Cliff Peak Province.

Even if the Harghonese show up with the Ferguson knock off, and church designed and built angle gun artillery, they are still going to be facing forces that have MUCH superior weapons that can negate their numbers with greater range and accuracy.

I just don't see any Harchong army overwhelming a dug in ICA contingent unless RFC allows them to attack at the edge of a forest like the Dolhar army did in LAMA.

Against that mass of men, the ICA won't be trying to cut them off. It will be a case of find a good killing ground, dig in, and pile up the bodies.

Can't wait to read what really happens.

jmbm wrote:The French 75mm was a breakthrough but it's 1897 technology and Howsmyn might be able to go straight to 1915-1917 artillery pieces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_1 ... _Schneider
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_inch_26_cwt_howitzer

Henry Brown wrote:Once Charis figures out how to engineer these developments into something small enough to fit into a land-based artillery carriage, they have everything they need to build something along the lines of the WW1 era French 75. Except, since Charis already has a 4 inch rifled muzzleloading cannon, they might want to stick with that caliber. Which would give them a bigger, heavier shell and most likely longer range than the historical French 75.

Considering how long it took to get a reliable brake at high fire rate (the 75 could fire in short bursts faster than bolt rifles), and that you absolutely need smokeless powder to make that one work, even with advance knowledge it may a bit too much to go directly to the big 155s.

pokermind wrote:

I reused the drawing to fit within the proscriptions for good ol' Vicar Clynton.

Poker

Good drawing.

IIRC the early Maxim guns used something similar to this.

I thought about redoing the drawing, but I'm glad that I didn't as you did a much better job.