How do you like the new Nimitz?

pokermind wrote:Mxx-Q check out tRMN site https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=171925089508543 discussion of pics said they could not use Bu-Nine stuff because it would cost money so they have to be different. Look for Lester Tourville pic to get right thread.

Poker

That's my IANAL interpretation, anyway. Artists need to be paid like everybody else, and anyway, as I recall David himself mentioned, the needs of different media are going to be expressed in different ways.

I'm also going to note that you have probably seen very few actually BLACK things on a TV or movie screen - black flattens very readily under stage lights (I am not a theatre major, but I know lots of 'em).

pokermind wrote:Mxx-Q check out tRMN site https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=171925089508543 discussion of pics said they could not use Bu-Nine stuff because it would cost money so they have to be different. Look for Lester Tourville pic to get right thread.

Poker

I never said I wanted them to use the BuNine designs, or even Christy's drawing.

I don't have a problem with them having a different look than what BuNine or anyone else has come up with. What I have a problem with is the size of Nimitz. He's too big, based on descriptions in the books, which the comics and movie are supposed to be based on.

I'll accept the fact that they may end up leaving him this size, for whatever reasons they have. Keep in mind, though, that accepting it doesn't mean I agree with it. I just wanted to voice my opinion that there is a problem, IMO, with his size. I would feel this way even if I *weren't* part of BuNine.

MaxxQ wrote:

SWM wrote:David said a long time ago that "sitting on Honor's shoulder" means that most of Nimitz's body is actually hanging down Honor's back. It does not mean the entire body, nor even most of the weight, is resting on top of the shoulder.

Let me get this straight... from this post and the one in the other thread, you think Nimitz, as depicted in the art, is the right size, correct?

Can you tell me how you can reconcile about 9-10 kilos (20.25 - 22.5 pounds) of weight into something that size coming from a heavy-grav world that would require a denser bone structure and denser musculature? Not to mention all the textev of Nimitz sitting in a high chair at the dinner table, and all the textev of Nimitz lying on Honor's lap.

I've known regular housecats that weigh about the same, and they are nowhere near that size, and they came from a 1G grav well.

He's too big. Period. Full stop.

Edit: And if Hipper was of comparable size, he wouldn't have just knocked Rachael onto her butt. He would have flattened her.

Yes, I did say earlier that I didn't think he was too big, but you already convinced me upthread that he was a little too big.

In the post you quoted here, though, I was talking to someone who apparently thought that Nimitz actually puts his whole body on Honor's shoulder. I was pointing out that he was wrong on that particular point.

(I actually have a cat who weighs that much. If his weight were distributed better rather than hanging from his belly, he actually would be nearly that big compared to an average-sized person. But not quite, and Honor is tall, so as I said, I grant that the picture of Nimitz is a bit too big.)

OK... let's see if I can put this in simple enough terms that the morons who have been screwing up these drawings can understand.

First of all, the size of an adult, male treecat. The repeated descriptions of how a treecat (usually Nimitz) rides a human's shoulder are actually quite simple. The true feet are placed partway down his human's back (just below the human's shoulder blade area), while the hand/feet grip the top of the shoulder; this leaves the true hands mostly free (Nimitz was often said to put his right true hand on top of Honor's head or cap). Considering Honor's height, this would make Nimitz's body length (NOT counting head or tail) around 2.5 feet (give or take). The general SIZE of the blue 'thing' that is shown in Pokermind's pic is not terribly far off (the body looks to be in the 3' range); I think that it would be a bit big to be Nimitz, but possibly in the realm of the largest example of a treecat. Female 'cats would be somewhat smaller, say a body of 2' or so on average. Their tails are roughly as their bodies, maybe slightly longer. Add on a reasonable sized head, and Nimitz would be 5.5 feet or so long from nose to tail.

How would something that long weigh a comparatively small amount? Because the body, although well-muscled, is fairly small; much of the visual 'size' of the 'cat is fur, not flesh. And the tail, although strong and versatile, would not weigh very much (not going to repeat the description of the tail here - it was already covered - but I would say that it looks like a fluffy cat's tail, but with much more flexibility). The fur of a treecat has been well-established. There is a longer outer coat AND an thicker but shorter inner coat (which Nimitz had to shed as quickly as possible when they were trapped on the Haven prison planet). But all that fur - although giving the 'cat a much 'thicker' visible appearance - doesn't weigh much at all; the tail and fur probably make up only about 5% of a treecat's full mass/weight.

Treecat's have NEVER been described as having a reptilian or 'alien' appearance. There is a good reason why they were called treeCATs by humans; although there are obvious differences, the visual similarity was a striking one!

I understand that some of the cover art of various HH books didn't hit the mark completely in ref to the treecats, but even the worst of the ones that I have seen are light years better than the crap that started this discussion.

Someone PLEASE tell the 'artists' (I use that term loosely!) to READ THE DAMN BOOKS!!!! There are plenty of good descriptions that they can use to help them get this right!!!!

Renegade13 wrote:Treecat's have NEVER been described as having a reptilian or 'alien' appearance. There is a good reason why they were called treeCATs by humans; although there are obvious differences, the visual similarity was a striking one!

I gather that you must have missed the part where Evergreen said that they weren't sure yet how they would pull off the fur, so what we're seeing is a version of the model without fur applied.

It'll change as they figure things out. How do you muscle a 6 limbed creature? How does that musculature work? How does it look when it moves? How do you animate that much fur?

Nimitz is 65 cm long, not counting tail. People here should probably compare 65 centimeters with their own body. If his hindlegs are extended downward (which they must be, given how the truefeet are gripping) the size depicted in that picture is only a little bit too big. It is not as far off as some people have implied.

The E wrote:

Renegade13 wrote:Treecat's have NEVER been described as having a reptilian or 'alien' appearance. There is a good reason why they were called treeCATs by humans; although there are obvious differences, the visual similarity was a striking one!

I gather that you must have missed the part where Evergreen said that they weren't sure yet how they would pull off the fur, so what we're seeing is a version of the model without fur applied.

They could watch "Puss-in-Boots" (the recent one) and just possibly ask the artists who did the cats in that?

MaxxQ wrote:...

Can you tell me how you can reconcile about 9-10 kilos (20.25 - 22.5 pounds) of weight into something that size coming from a heavy-grav world that would require a denser bone structure and denser musculature? Not to mention all the textev of Nimitz sitting in a high chair at the dinner table, and all the textev of Nimitz lying on Honor's lap.

I've known regular housecats that weigh about the same, and they are nowhere near that size, and they came from a 1G grav well.

He's too big. Period. Full stop.

Edit: And if Hipper was of comparable size, he wouldn't have just knocked Rachael onto her butt. He would have flattened her.

I can add that my aunt once had a cat that managed to get over 20kg, without being visibly fat. Big and probably strongest cat i´ve ever seen, yet that giant "thing" is probably twice the size.

And frankly, that thing has pseudo-human style fingers and hands?(with arthritis added for free) WTF? Not to mention looking like some random demon from a horror movie.

And did anyone do a basic scale-check?
IIRC, Nimitz isn´t supposed to be >3m long even with tail included.
(notice that it´s the end of his tail up mid left by her right hand)

Tenshinai wrote:

MaxxQ wrote:...

Can you tell me how you can reconcile about 9-10 kilos (20.25 - 22.5 pounds) of weight into something that size coming from a heavy-grav world that would require a denser bone structure and denser musculature? Not to mention all the textev of Nimitz sitting in a high chair at the dinner table, and all the textev of Nimitz lying on Honor's lap.

I've known regular housecats that weigh about the same, and they are nowhere near that size, and they came from a 1G grav well.

He's too big. Period. Full stop.

Edit: And if Hipper was of comparable size, he wouldn't have just knocked Rachael onto her butt. He would have flattened her.

I can add that my aunt once had a cat that managed to get over 20kg, without being visibly fat. Big and probably strongest cat i´ve ever seen, yet that giant "thing" is probably twice the size.

And frankly, that thing has pseudo-human style fingers and hands?(with arthritis added for free) WTF? Not to mention looking like some random demon from a horror movie.

And did anyone do a basic scale-check?
IIRC, Nimitz isn´t supposed to be >3m long even with tail included.
(notice that it´s the end of his tail up mid left by her right hand)

20 kilos? Are you sure? That's 45 pounds. Still, I suppose it's possible...

Anyway, about his true-hands. I happen to think that those are about the only thing that looks right, aside from the size. Maybe make them a bit more slender, but other than that, his forepaws - or true-hands - should look pretty much like four-fingered hands (or three fingers and a thumb, if you want to be picky). Also, if I'm looking at it right, they have the thumbs in the correct position - on the *outside* of the hands, rather than the inside, as human thumbs are. That was something David told me at HonorCon when I showed him the picture of Nimitz that Christy had done for me.

His true-feet - the hindmost paws - should look more like regular paws, with much stubbier "fingers", and the center pair should be somewhere in between the true-hands and true-feet as far as "finger" length. The comic art looks to have them all the same length, though. Actually, looking closer, if those are his true-feet at Honor's hips, then his feet have longer fingers than his hands.

Lastly, I know a couple ladies who would love to know who his manicurist is. Nice nails. Too bad he's supposed to have claws that retract into sheathes when not tearing someone's throat out.