Linux vs Winblows

The reason my company is still using the Sun MRP is because the parent company has acquired many companies that don't have an MRP system or theirs is even less functional that ours so we keep getting pushed down the priority list.

I don't follow tablet OS releases or development so I don't know what significant changes Ubuntu tablets will provide.

As far as Microsoft's anti-competitive practices go, I've never felt like I was hugely restricted to what I can do on my Window's computer, especially compared to the Apple OS series. Have they bundled things more than they legally should have? Yes, but they don't force you to use Windows Media Player or Internet Explorer. The fact is consumers expect that their computer, regardless of OS, will -at a minimum- go on the internet and play music out of the box. I've had more problems due to limited competition with cell phone providers, cable companies (Comcast, cough, cough), and utility companies than with my computer's operating system.

I don't have the confidence you do about Windows beginning its demise this year, I think you're basing that off of issues Windows 8 is having. The problem with Windows 8 has almost nothing to do with the OS itself, the problem with Windows 8 is Microsoft's Marketing department. Windows 8 is a touch OS that can do traditional Windows tasks. It's not really designed to function like any of it's desktop/laptop predecessors, it can still perform almost all of those functions but it's not designed to. And Microsoft's marketing department has thus far failed to grasp that, though the rest of the company seems to be beginning to understand that, now that Microsoft has announced that it's extending support for Windows 7 longer and allowing people to switch to Windows 7 from Windows 8.

The other factor that I think you may be glossing over is the expense of switching. I've run the math on a theoretical company using conservative assumptions and not factoring in difficult to determine costs (lost productivity, delays, and expert trainer costs).

Lets assume that a medium sized company (~400 employees) with 75% of its work force requiring an individual computer. That's 300 computers. Using the overly optimistic number of 20 minutes total time to have the computer up and running with Linux and all needed programs, that is 6,000 minutes, 100 hours. Using standard employee time utilization of 80% (the remaining 20% is breaks, meetings, etc...), that gives a required 125 man-hours to switch. At $75/hour (that's a rough value for an employee making $20/hour plus benefits and overhead to support that employee) that comes to a total of $9,375 just to have the computers run Linux and the programs needed for each employee to do their job.

Now that the computers are running Linux, let's assume that it takes the equivalent of about 5-8 hour days for each employee to be able to use the Linux systems and all the necessary programs as fast as they currently do in the Windows environment. Again using $75/hour (rather low when you factor in managers and educated professionals like engineers), that comes to $900,000. And that's not counting the 25% that don't need computers to do their daily work but do need them for timecards, company email, and other tasks. Let's say it takes 2 hours for them and use the same time value of $75/hour. That's $15,000. So that's a conservative $915,000 to have the employees doing their job as fast as they are currently doing it, not including time from experts to do the actual training.

So the total cost (not including trainers, assuming the existing hardware will work just as well, and that all software is free) is $924,375. And that doesn't account for lost productivity and delays.

I don't see the business case for switching when the company does not have significant issues with crashs, viruses, and other malware. And that doesn't consider the possible compatibility issues of existing files and addressing issues related to protecting trade secrets/confidential information.

cthia wrote:I understand those points. Believe me, I have worked for companies whom are still in the dark ages too. They feel its too much trouble to change over to anything else. And there simply is no incentive to do so.

Alternatives do exist even in your case.

I have a couple of Sun Systems. I collect nostalgic hardware.

But that problem you've touched on stems from unfair trade practices of one Redmond giant.

Same as Ma Bell & AT&T.

I do not see Windows surviving. I just don't.

This year, will spell the beginning of Windows demise.

Once the Ubuntu tablet is released people's eyes are going to open.

And they'll see Microsoft for the first time.

Thanks Donnachaidh for that analysis. Although retired now I was a reasonably computer literate person who held a CEO type position in my latter career. The analysis is spot on to what I would have expected my people to have provided in the same circumstance. What I would add though is that the average employee is zonked out with "management initiatives" that end up complicating their working lives with no benefit they can see to them. The average worker is just computer literate enough to do his/her job, and then at home do emails, games and web browsing. They will stay with Windows at home because the spouse and kids know it, and then having to switch to Unix mode each day at work, not happy. An analogy I'd use is that, being a petrol head, I loved having a converted race car (no roof, heater, radio etc) to commute to work each day, but my coworkers thought I was crazy as they stooged along slowly in their barges with air con on. The average person wants stuff that works well enough but is simple to use, and doesn't care that it is not cutting edge.

I use windows beause its easy to use for uni, and i can run all the programs i need for presentations and notekeeping on it, and for gaming, and run *nix based systems for programming, physics simulations et al. At home, I Use Apple on our family computer, and run android on my phone, and help my grandad with his tablet. so I have a knowledge of use in every system.

I think every OS has pros and cons, but for windows 8, sorry, thats the one thing i wont touch. Neither will my grandparents, parents, or anyone else i help with IT issues, due entirely to the Metro interface.

But I agree with Daryl: it all come down to choice.

From the beginning of the post I was addressing personal computer users, not businesses.
"Why oh why do people continue to use Winblows?"

You insisted that I respond to the business side of things. I thought I had responded to everything. Everything that was pertinent to my original post.

I said it already. I understand a business's need to run particular, specialized software.
I understand the convenience of Windows.

I understand that it matters not if there are countless better OS's than the one you employ if those other operating systems fail to run your mission critical software.

If company A builds widgets. And of the available OS's (A B C D E F), F is the only one that runs widget software then it becomes a no brainer.

Most industrial companies build their business around the software and not the OS, out of necessity.

But why do people themselves continue to use Windows in their homes?
Aside from those that need to take their work home with them?
Why pay a few hundred dollars for office software when a free alternative is available. That is as capable, and in the case of Open Office more capable, that also is compatible with Windows.
Even if you're rich it doesn't make sense to throw that money away. Give it to your kids.

The problem with Windows 8 is its significant departure from its UI (user interface)
You said it yourself, people do not wish to spend time learning an OS. And this interface is a radical departure from previous versions of windows. People can't find the [START] button, [FILES], [Drives] etc. Windows 8 became less intuitive. And many of its users are older generation users. Whose needs are simply word processing, web surfing, recipe management, etc., whom lack the incentive (as you put it) to relearn the interface. What is easy for you, a professional is not so much for mom and pops.

Windows 8 is also the Redmond giant's attempt to stave off Linux. Many people already have Linux technology. Your phone is probably android--which is Linux. Or an iPhone which is a Linux variant. And how many tablets are out there? All Android--Linux.

I say this year is the beginning of the end for Microsoft because of the power hungry appetite of the masses, and Windows isn't powerful enough or flexible enough to continue to appease us, to keep up with our endless appetite for power.

In the future I see Windows existing only to run legacy software, in dwindling instances.
Windows had a good run, but its weaknesses are beginning to show.

Desktops are the new mainframes.
Laptops are the new desktops (people will leave them at home).
And tablets are the new laptops.

In the above post Daryl mentioned that people want devices that are simple to use. True. But they want that simplicity to be wrapped in power and convenience. How many people will purchase a new computer year after year chasing the promise of greater power and speed. We want our devices to boot faster and faster, run faster and faster, last longer and longer, and be convenient!

Windows simply cannot deliver on that. How many different dialects of Windows have there been?
Windows CE, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone, and the many mainstream versions of Windows. Neither of the dialects will run the desktop software and desktop software will not run on your phone or a seven inch tablet, or on any of the dialects. Even the dialects can't run the same software!

Not so with Linux. One OS, running the same on all platforms! If you want you'll be able to load your work's desktop software on your tablet or phone! That's what people want. Build it and they will come!

You think people don't wish to learn Linux? But they do. They only have to be exposed to the power. Again, build it and they will come.

Whilst watching Star Trek whom among us did not covet the StarFleet P.A.D.D? Which are simply today's tablets, made possible by Linux. I do NOT see people shying away from android tablets and android phones simply because Linux lies underneath.

Was it difficult to learn to operate your phone, or tablet?
And even though you haven't responded to that, I know you have one, or both.
Don't you? Don't you?

Come on, admit it, you know your phone is Linux based. Isn't it!
Bet you own an android tablet too, or your kids. Try and take it away. Just try it.

****** *

By the way Donna, thanks for the informative post!

And this year the full version of Linux arrives on a tablet and the phone.

Every household with kids should have a Linux environment for certain.
It sparks, caters to and supports their imagination.
If a child is into music. There are free music programs to wrote, view, edit, publish or develop music.

If a child wants to learn a programming language it is there. Complete environments for free, That rival some costing thousands.

Linux support their inquisitive, restless minds for no additional costs.

I'm a programmer. My language of choice for years, Lisp.
There is a commercial lisp environment available for $10,000.
I have that environment.

But I prefer Emacs with slime running several flavors of Lisp. Slime is amazing. Incredible. I can't believe it is free. The power of it!

Some packages available number in the thousands...

https://packages.debian.org/stable/

Haven used Windows
RMN Linux
Sir Horace had it easy massaging Haven's computers. Remember Tepes?!


I visited a friend a couple months back to set up his and wife's new Windows 8 laptops and his wifi network. He was placing their two old Windows 2000 laptops on the shelf in storage. I asked about them, they said they both no longer worked and that I could have them if I wanted.

They have two daughters that have been begging for computers. Two lovely teenagers. They weren't allowed access to parent's computers because they were business computers. I suggested giving them the old laptops. The kids were beaming! They said sure if I wanted but that they weren't going to spend money on fixing them or putting software on them. Kids now frowning. I told them not to worry.

Yep, I replaced the broken Windows 2000 that contained countless viruses and popups and ultimately stopped booting. One had a faulty memory bank-identified with a live-version of Linux booting from a thumb drive.

After cleaning and reformatting hard drive I installed the latest version of Ubuntu. The kids were besides themselves!

Upon returning a couple weeks later the kids were complaining. It seems mom and dad had commandeered both computers. They couldn't leave them alone.

"I didn't know Linux could do all of this!"

Again, thanks to all for your responses and honesty.

And yes, it should come down to personal choice, but often it doesn't.

Donna.
You should be CEO!
You weren't even trying yet you impressed me!

Linux for the Information Age!

The average person does not want to be hassled to learn a new operating system. The average user has enough problems in life due to variety of things. Your operating system is probably a superior operating system. Heck, Apple's Mac is a superior operating system in comparison to any windows operating system.

The facts are Microsoft is the dominant operating system worldwide. It provides legacy support. As a result, they are constantly target with virus's, hacks etc...etc...etc...
When I worked at defense contractor, they used some type unix based operating system. (This was at least 15 years ago.)

In the end, Microsoft has won the battle if not war. I am no great fan of Microsoft if you want my opinions about Microsoft just see my rants about tech support - India - & Microsoft within the free range forum. You argue the case well and should commended for the passion for which you bring to the topic.

Donnachaidh wrote:The reason my company is still using the Sun MRP is because the parent company has acquired many companies that don't have an MRP system or theirs is even less functional that ours so we keep getting pushed down the priority list.
...snip for brevity...

Good info thank you.

Thanks again,
T2M

The biggest problem is companies who still don't update software. Nor will they pay for new software for the new os. Some companies are still using dos based software. (Android doesn't know what dos is)

Also your trying to tell a company that is a capitalistic entity that something is free. And that free is better. Free is never better. Anything worth doing, is worth doing for money. Microsoft represents this best, and when it works it works great, when it doesn't it blows but that's okay. Money fixes the problem, companies understand that. Free doesn't make sense.

As for problems Microsoft has a solution, you call your, not their, help desk. The help desk talks to you until they give up and pass it down to us MCP MCSE or whatever they are called now. Then we come and fix it. Easy, costs money, makes sense.

Or companies who lock down software so that it cant be upgraded.

My girlfriend got a newish HP laptop, and when I reinstalled windows for her, I found several of the drivers and software had release dates in mid 2012, and hadnt been updated since, despite an identical model bar one or two parts having late 2013 software which fixed several bugs. Trying to install the official newer versions from the other laptop was a no go as well, as apparently despite having the same cpu and gpu, and identical motherboards, (i checked, its only the addon parts like extra usb and the wireless that were different), the stuff said it was incompatible and refused to install. its taken me a fortnight to get workarounds that dont break her computer working, to update to the latest drivers.

Lord Skimper wrote:The biggest problem is companies who still don't update software. Nor will they pay for new software for the new os. Some companies are still using dos based software. (Android doesn't know what dos is)

Why don't I use Linux?

I can't be bothered. I'm bothered enough trying to figure out where everything is on Windows. I just don't care enough to switch, despite potentially being a better program. It's just not better enough for me to care, and I got it free with the computer.

So why change?

Uroboros wrote:Why don't I use Linux?

I can't be bothered. I'm bothered enough trying to figure out where everything is on Windows. I just don't care enough to switch, despite potentially being a better program. It's just not better enough for me to care, and I got it free with the computer.

So why change?

Maybe because everytime microsoft makes a new version of windows you'll have to do the same there? And, with linux you can stay up-to-date with everyting else while keeping the same interface for much longer (generally, 10+ years). Changing it every year or so can still be done, but that will only be interface, so won't affect device drivers, or availability of specific applications you like at all.