Information I'd love to know

I think my initial point has been misinterpreted. I'm not surprised that Honor hasn't had a staff post since OBS, for two reasons:

1) (In-universe) Since the end of OBS she's been too senior for most staff jobs - unlike the SLN, the RMN doesn't use flag officers in staff roles.

2) A story about a staff officer wouldn't be anything like as interesting.

My point was that I was surprised she hadn't held a single staff position prior to taking command of the first Fearless. If she was being considered for high rank, then I would have expected her to have some kind of staff role as a Lieutenant or Lieutenant Commander.

I think that jchilds may have been on to something when he suggested that the Youngs or their friends may have had a part to play. A successful tour in a staff role could be very valuable to a young officer, as it would bring her into daily contact with at least one, and probably several, flag officers and others who will likely reach flag rank before her. Denying her those contacts would be likely to retard her career - could this be one of the ways she has, as is stated in (I think) OBS, felt the influence of the Youngs holding her back?

crewdude48 wrote:

NortonIDaughter wrote:She's going to totally geek out learning TSL, though. Seriously, she'll love it.

Either that, or she will hate it, not be able to get the hang of it, and cobble together a small device that autimaticly translates TSL to spoken English.

Hopefully, she says, "Screw this!'" and has someone build a holo-audio Walkman translator.

(Yes, Walkman. She is still using Haven tech, after all. Beowulf or Manticore can put out an iCat later.)

Dafmeister wrote:My point was that I was surprised she hadn't held a single staff position prior to taking command of the first Fearless. If she was being considered for high rank, then I would have expected her to have some kind of staff role as a Lieutenant or Lieutenant Commander.

I think that jchilds may have been on to something when he suggested that the Youngs or their friends may have had a part to play. A successful tour in a staff role could be very valuable to a young officer, as it would bring her into daily contact with at least one, and probably several, flag officers and others who will likely reach flag rank before her. Denying her those contacts would be likely to retard her career - could this be one of the ways she has, as is stated in (I think) OBS, felt the influence of the Youngs holding her back?

Ah, gotcha-- you're right, I'd've expected her to have been someone's flag lieutenant at some point, but she wasn't. As you say, I think we can blame the Young clan for that.

The depressing thing about the Young clan, to me, is all the other people they stepped on who didn't have Honor's abilities and good luck-- that line about Pavel and his father's yacht pilot makes my blood run cold. No justice for her or anyone else like her, though I've no doubt she toasted his demise withe the best she could afford.

NortonIDaughter wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:My point was that I was surprised she hadn't held a single staff position prior to taking command of the first Fearless. If she was being considered for high rank, then I would have expected her to have some kind of staff role as a Lieutenant or Lieutenant Commander.

I think that jchilds may have been on to something when he suggested that the Youngs or their friends may have had a part to play. A successful tour in a staff role could be very valuable to a young officer, as it would bring her into daily contact with at least one, and probably several, flag officers and others who will likely reach flag rank before her. Denying her those contacts would be likely to retard her career - could this be one of the ways she has, as is stated in (I think) OBS, felt the influence of the Youngs holding her back?

Ah, gotcha-- you're right, I'd've expected her to have been someone's flag lieutenant at some point, but she wasn't. As you say, I think we can blame the Young clan for that.

The depressing thing about the Young clan, to me, is all the other people they stepped on who didn't have Honor's abilities and good luck-- that line about Pavel and his father's yacht pilot makes my blood run cold. No justice for her or anyone else like her, though I've no doubt she toasted his demise withe the best she could afford.

Let's not forget that while the Youngs had a more established old boys network to influence Honor's career, she also had several pretty heavyweight hitters in her corner from relatively early on, like Courvosier, Hartley and Bachfisch.

Who appear to have steered her pretty firmly along the tactical track which is, as we all know, the fastest route to command. They figured once she made it to skipper, there would be time to worry about grooming for flag rank. But hey, this is the woman who got promoted three flag grades in one leap, so...

munroburton wrote:
Let's not forget that while the Youngs had a more established old boys network to influence Honor's career, she also had several pretty heavyweight hitters in her corner from relatively early on, like Courvosier, Hartley and Bachfisch.

Who appear to have steered her pretty firmly along the tactical track which is, as we all know, the fastest route to command. They figured once she made it to skipper, there would be time to worry about grooming for flag rank. But hey, this is the woman who got promoted three flag grades in one leap, so...

I'm not sure that Bachfisch's support would have been worth much - if I remember WoH correctly, he was dumped out of the Navy in fairly ignominious fashion after Honor's middy cruise.

Dafmeister wrote:

munroburton wrote:
Let's not forget that while the Youngs had a more established old boys network to influence Honor's career, she also had several pretty heavyweight hitters in her corner from relatively early on, like Courvosier, Hartley and Bachfisch.

Who appear to have steered her pretty firmly along the tactical track which is, as we all know, the fastest route to command. They figured once she made it to skipper, there would be time to worry about grooming for flag rank. But hey, this is the woman who got promoted three flag grades in one leap, so...

I'm not sure that Bachfisch's support would have been worth much - if I remember WoH correctly, he was dumped out of the Navy in fairly ignominious fashion after Honor's middy cruise.

He was, but crucially, he was there to blunt the worst of Santino's attempts to derail Honor's middy cruise, as advised by (I think) Courvosier during Ms. Midshipwoman Harrington. Even back then, people were looking out for her. She realised that later in her career - at some point she reflected that the Commandant was desperate for her to tell him the truth about Young's "fall".

The RMN seems to be divided into two camps of patronage. One is very much the old boys' network where families exchange favours. The other are the competent officers who spot junior versions of themselves and groom them for advancement in the Navy. Both sides use similar tactics and practices for completely different reasons. Honor is very much in the second camp those days and isn't afraid of playing the game when the Admiralty errs. Not only was she prepared to throw a heap of crap on Drakosvic to get her command team, she rescued Jaruwalski and gave quite a few people aboard Wayfarer a lot of boost.

I'm not sure where I read it but my faulty memory does tell me that Honor had a staff position on someone's SD at one time before she became a Commander with her own ship.

Reader Bob wrote:I'm not sure where I read it but my faulty memory does tell me that Honor had a staff position on someone's SD at one time before she became a Commander with her own ship.

No, she was IIRC Asst. Tactical Officer and Tactical Officer aboard HMS Manticore (SD-01). Not Operations Officer which is the staff position of Tactical Officer.

Dafmeister wrote:I think my initial point has been misinterpreted. I'm not surprised that Honor hasn't had a staff post since OBS, for two reasons:

1) (In-universe) Since the end of OBS she's been too senior for most staff jobs - unlike the SLN, the RMN doesn't use flag officers in staff roles.

2) A story about a staff officer wouldn't be anything like as interesting.

My point was that I was surprised she hadn't held a single staff position prior to taking command of the first Fearless. If she was being considered for high rank, then I would have expected her to have some kind of staff role as a Lieutenant or Lieutenant Commander.

I think that jchilds may have been on to something when he suggested that the Youngs or their friends may have had a part to play. A successful tour in a staff role could be very valuable to a young officer, as it would bring her into daily contact with at least one, and probably several, flag officers and others who will likely reach flag rank before her. Denying her those contacts would be likely to retard her career - could this be one of the ways she has, as is stated in (I think) OBS, felt the influence of the Youngs holding her back?

Actually Honor serves as the XO on the HMS Broadsword in the short story "The Hard Way Home" in Worlds of Honor. It fills in the backstory of that ski lodge incident where Honor saved several people, including one of our favorite marines. You know, the incident they allude to on Gryphon.

Greentea wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:I think my initial point has been misinterpreted. I'm not surprised that Honor hasn't had a staff post since OBS, for two reasons:

1) (In-universe) Since the end of OBS she's been too senior for most staff jobs - unlike the SLN, the RMN doesn't use flag officers in staff roles.

2) A story about a staff officer wouldn't be anything like as interesting.

My point was that I was surprised she hadn't held a single staff position prior to taking command of the first Fearless. If she was being considered for high rank, then I would have expected her to have some kind of staff role as a Lieutenant or Lieutenant Commander.

I think that jchilds may have been on to something when he suggested that the Youngs or their friends may have had a part to play. A successful tour in a staff role could be very valuable to a young officer, as it would bring her into daily contact with at least one, and probably several, flag officers and others who will likely reach flag rank before her. Denying her those contacts would be likely to retard her career - could this be one of the ways she has, as is stated in (I think) OBS, felt the influence of the Youngs holding her back?

Actually Honor serves as the XO on the HMS Broadsword in the short story "The Hard Way Home" in Worlds of Honor. It fills in the backstory of that ski lodge incident where Honor saved several people, including one of our favorite marines. You know, the incident they allude to on Gryphon.

That reminds me: where is our gum-chewing marine, Susan Hibson? The last mention I remember is in EoH during Honor's "funeral":

A petite, black-haired Marine colonel followed them, her movements equally exact despite a slight limp, and saluted the captain with the sword with parade-ground precision.

And it's not stated explicitly in the text that that's her (the limp could be a byproduct of having to have her leg regenerated after losing it aboard Wayfarer).