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Rediscovery of Technology

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Re: Rediscovery of Technology
Post by Tenshinai   » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:00 am

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petercharters wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MOnehCOUw


:lol:

Oh yeah...

petercharters wrote:I always have a problem with the whole "conspiracy theory" approach to life.

I can imagine that there are indeed plenty of conspiracies involving getting re-elected, removing political opponents, winning contracts, embezzling public finances and so on.

I can believe that there are organisations such as the Vatican that are sitting on many tons of old documents (or destroyed them years ago) to prevent there being evidence that contradicts their doctrine. Just as there are banks and financial institutions that really, really don't want all their complete books and records explored and audited.

Military secrets, secret stealth aircraft or internet surveillance programs? Sure.
Though note that even the largest, most organised, most secret program in the world, run by the NSA, still got revealed and plastered across the world's media.

However, there are just too many "conspiracies" I have to just ask "Why? Who gains from turning this into a big conspiracy"


No one. Especially since the bigger a conspiracy is, the more likely it is to leak.

There´s also the epic fail by a huge number of conspiracy nutjobs based on "oooh the US government hides it from us" and variations on that.

Ehm... Ok, so if that´s true, how exactly are they getting the govts all over the world to suddenly follow their orders when they can´t even get their hardcore allies to automatically agree with even small matters?

And based on some claims of conspiracies, what´s the point if the freakin conspiracy is so ridiculously big that more people are already in on it than not?


No, i´m of similar opinion, i´m sure there´s lots of conspiracies going around, but i seriously doubt most of those shouted about in various media exist.

And in historical research, it´s just not a matter of conspiracy, it´s simply that most researchers doesn´t believe in the odder claims made and therefore it usually isn´t considered "canon", nothing odd about it, even if it´s sometimes sad because at least a rare few of those "can´t be real" things have a fair probability of being real.

And the kneejerk reaction blocks proper investigation for no good reason.

petercharters wrote:How on earth did they manage to get almost the entire community of world-wide scientists - a figure in the millions - to sign up to faking all modern science - particle physics, cosmology, archaeology, chemistry, biochemistry, genetics and all the other stuff that goes into proving that the earth isn't 6000 years old?


"They" can´t. There´s simply far too much that even an average person could doublecheck (and figure out) on their own.

petercharters wrote:Much as I loved the series, that was one of my uncertainties about the old Stargate series. By the end of it - something like 15 years of time - tens or hundreds of thousands of soldiers must have cycled through Stargate Command, been crews aboard human warships, inhabited Atlantis, received alien tech to examine, worked in companies providing equipment for the SGC, etc etc etc. It's like imagining that the recent war in Afghanistan wasn't against the Afghanis or Islamic fundamentalists, but against a huge alien invasion force based out of a landed 10-mile wide alien mothership, and it's all been covered up. Those weren't IED injuries - they were plasma burns. And it's all being hushed up
[takes a quick note, that might make an interesting premise for a novel - The Camouflaged War :)]


Yeah, one of my big issues with the series as well. And even with dramatisation, why do they have to make people so stupid sometimes?

And why oh why spin the original story off in directions which just made it more and more questionable?

I mean, what´s the point of coming up with ever more absurdly, ridiculously overpowered enemies, when you KNOW that they´re just going to do a "I press the -activate God mode- button, we win" anyway.

Compare to, lets say the Buffy-tvs series(much better), they only do that at the end of season 4, while the ends of s2,5 and 6 are more or less tragic(and i don´t know anyone that predicted who would be the "-real- big bad" of s6) and only really just s3 ends in a mostly unambigious "win".

SG-1 could have been SO much better with a minimal bit of moderation or at least caution in the writing... :(
And the other SG series too often took the worst of the original and made it worse.

At least it spawned hordes of decent fanfiction. :mrgreen:

petercharters wrote:What we didn't do was say "It's Aliens At The Center Of The Earth With Big Magnets!!!!" or "Goddidit!" The Theory of Intelligent Falling is not a good one.


:mrgreen:

petercharters wrote:If we abandoned London or New York for twenty thousand years, there would still be some signs.


NOT much though. There is for example a fair amount of contention about just how long modern buildings would survive if there were no longer any humans around... Some say, less than 1k years. And their arguments are not exactly bad.

And a lot of our high tech is surprisingly fragile over longer times. What there would huge amounts of would be plastics, but it´s uncertain if it would in recognisable forms after such a time.
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Re: Rediscovery of Technology
Post by Tenshinai   » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:20 am

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smr wrote:Let's turn the argument around and say what happens to a more primitive society that meets a more technological advanced society. The primitive society totally disappears.
...


Really? Does known history agree with you?

Nope.

Celts were far more advanced than the Romans. And it took modern archaeology hundreds of years to realise that.

Mongols vs the world? How many civilisations did they trash that were more advanced than they were?


So, you don't believe in ET's. Hmm, billions of galaxies some hundred, thousands, and/or million of years older. I believe life is abundant throughout the galaxies. Let's put a limit on the number for this discussion, let's say there is only 1 planet per galaxy that has all the right conditions to develop and substain life. That leaves a whole a lot of planets with life on them. Many of these planets will be so far ahead of Earth, their technology will appear to be magic to many people. Would you keep an eye on your galactic neighbors that have obtained nuclear weapons? I certainly would keep an eye on my local neighbors for self defense reasons.


:lol:

So many logic fails in that...

And it´s always so amusing when people assume that if aliens exist, they must be more advanced.

I´d probably be more surprised if evidence came up that "no life anywhere else" than the opposite. But there´s zero evidence that there´s any aliens gallivanting around on earth.
There´s not even any halfdecent indications for it.

And nukes? Seriously? Wanna guess why RFC stresses how nuke missiles are primitive and poor tech in the Honorverse?


I know our government could not keep that a secret. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! A government can keep a secret when it chooses to. Remember, we only hear of their failures and not their successes of keeping info secret.


No, because sooner or later, even the most wellburied stuff tends to pop up and cause governments a lot of extra gray hairs.
Details and specific facts often stay buried, but that something was buried rarely does.
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Re: Rediscovery of Technology
Post by Browne   » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:51 pm

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viciokie wrote:
snip
There are other oddities as well like Mohenjadaro that is still radioactive in places and shows the effect of a high intensity event in the center of the city that fused glass in a 50 yard radius (ala nuke bomb)
snip

Need to watch Ancient Aliens Debunk. They talk about this and that it's a lie.
http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/references-and-transcripts/ancient-nuclear-warefare/
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Re: Rediscovery of Technology
Post by Thucydides   » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:15 pm

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Want to have the perfect conspiracy? :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5p-uspcgRY
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Re: Rediscovery of Technology
Post by smr   » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:32 am

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That was hilarious...I just done my ab workout and hurt to laugh but laugh I did. :lol:


Thucydides wrote:Want to have the perfect conspiracy? :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5p-uspcgRY
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Re: Rediscovery of Technology
Post by Michael Everett   » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:10 pm

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Thucydides wrote:Want to have the perfect conspiracy? :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5p-uspcgRY

I have to say, I love a good conspiracy theory...
and that was nothing like a good conspiracy theory
:lol:
How I see them...
To reference Pratchett, it is amazing how governments can be amazing at suppressing information about alien visits, time travellers, trans-dimensional incursions and so on, yet they cannot keep their financial information secure...
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Re: Rediscovery of Technology
Post by Tenshinai   » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:03 am

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Michael Everett wrote:I have to say, I love a good conspiracy theory...
and that was nothing like a good conspiracy theory
:lol:
How I see them...


:lol:

Bug report, heh someone watched too much OMG perhaps? :geek:

Michael Everett wrote:To reference Pratchett, it is amazing how governments can be amazing at suppressing information about alien visits, time travellers, trans-dimensional incursions and so on, yet they cannot keep their financial information secure...


Yeah, isn´t that just amazing... :mrgreen:

One of the reasons Pratchett is good, his parodies on reality always has some "teeth".

Nasty big pointy teeth, no harmless bunnies there... ;)

Thucydides wrote:Want to have the perfect conspiracy? :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5p-uspcgRY

:twisted:

:mrgreen:
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Re: Rediscovery of Technology
Post by Imaginos1892   » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:10 am

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Funny how some people are ready to believe that the pyramids were built by aliens, or psychic powers, but somehow can't bring themselves to believe they could have been built with ropes, logs, and organization. That they can have "faith" in things with absolutely no supporting evidence, but not those with overwhelming evidence. It's like they picked up the scientific method and put it on inside-out.

As for grand conspiracy theories, well, "three men can keep a secret, if two of them are dead" pretty much covers that subject.

The term "technology" really means our ability to affect the world around us, and organization is a very powerful technology. The Romans conquered the Celts because they were much better organized. If ancient civilizations had possessed what we would consider "high technology" - mostly, industrialization and powered machines - they would have affected the world in unmistakeable ways that would be impossible to miss even after millennia. Look what we've done in just the last 200 years - pumped billions of barrels of oil, dug open-pit mines miles across and thousands of feet deep, piled up mountains of mine tailings, spread invasive species to every continent both deliberately and accidentally, created new species and wiped some old ones out entirely, dammed and diverted rivers, drained swamps....we sure have left our mark on this planet. If we mysteriously vanished tomorrow, the indisputable evidence of our activities would still be here after a million years. Even artifacts made out of plastic, gold, titanium, and ceramics would still be mostly intact - including several billion AOL CDs! We haven't found AOL CDs from any ancient civilizations.
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Re: Rediscovery of Technology
Post by Thucydides   » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:57 am

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We haven't found AOL CDs from any ancient civilizations.


Probably because the Ancients were too smart to sign up for AoL..... :twisted:
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Re: Rediscovery of Technology
Post by smr   » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:39 am

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Could Ancient humans have built the Pyramids. Yes they could have. I have seen and read about 3 possible ways of building the Pyramids in Egypt. What these theories do not take in account of Egyptians building a Pyramid in 20 to 30 years according to the ancient texts. What my contention is that technology rises and falls with civilizations. That seems to be the pattern of history. Civilizations rise, expand, degenerate, and then they repeat the process.

In dynastic types of governments authoritarian types of governments, we see the government at the highest level has a more advanced technology than the rest of society...prime example of it today is North Korea. Many of the rural North Koreans do not have running water, lights, or powered vehicles (cars, farm machines, or electrical power). However, the government has all these cool technologies plus nuclear technologies. We have prime example of technology being controlled by the government.

All I have argued is that the "Bible" and other religious/non religious ancient texts seem to point to technologies that are or have been only rediscovered. The geologic record points to a minimum 5 mass extinctions around the world. I am a born again Christian who experienced a near death. Now, fundamental Christians that argue with me about 6000 years of life. Well, they argue from the perspective of tracing lineage back to the beginning. Their are some serious flaws in their logic. My belief is the Bible explains Creation but Gods concept of time differs with humans concept of time. Now, the atheists point to evolution. Their are some serious flaws in evolution. How does the Universe go from inert elements to self-replicating molecules? As a result, I'm going to be attacked by both sides because I'm attacking their World paradigm.

I have a view that life is abundant throughout the Cosmos. Their is life on other planets. Our nearest neighbors probably keep on eye on us. I don't think were going to be allowed out of our own playground until we (humans) learn to play nice with our fellow humans. How could someone allow us out in the galactic neighborhood until we demonstrate through principles and actions of loving our neighbors irregardless of where they live?

Let's take the story of the destruction of the Tower of Babel. My impression was the Earth had some type global civilization. (Perhaps that is why we find the Pyramids throughout the World!) The bible says that we had the same language. This tower went up into the sky. So, either some really big pyramid that could be used as worldwide transmitter/receiver or maybe a space elevator that allowed for cheap space industry within our own solar system. Energy would be cheap and could send down the wire.

Hey, I'm not saying that I am right but I trying to look at ancient accounts through a modern man's eyes. My theories could be totally off but then it again maybe it's somewhat closer to the truth than we imagine.
My axiom is history written by the victors and their agendas. Just because it sounds like a conspiracy theory doesn't make it incorrect then again it could be totally nuts.
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