New Manty ship ideas.

I suppose it might be possible to make a drone that could do that. But the paradigm of the honorverse would say no to that. (No automated hyper translations)

Annachie wrote:I suppose it might be possible to make a drone that could do that. But the paradigm of the honorverse would say no to that. (No automated hyper translations)

You might be able to have an automated hyper transition, but the drone would still be basically the size of a dispatch boat, and it's hyper exit would be almost as visible to any grav sensors as the mothership's. (I guess there's some room to shrink it if you're willing to give up the ability to use it from grav waves; then you'd just need the hyper generator, and fusion plant, but could dispense with the fore and aft alpha nodes)

But given the size, cost, and its distinct limitation, there's really no reason to waste the space lugging such a white elephant around.

Well the hyper footprint can be minimized a lot with a low speed slow transition ala the Yawata strike force, and minimized more by low mass etc. and we don't know how small it could get.


But really, if it was doable we would have seen it by now I'm sure.

Lord Skimper wrote:Is it possible to borrow the submarine analogy here and ask if it is possible to make a "perescope" that can peek out of hyperspace into N space or vice versa, peek into hyperspace?

I don't think there's any explicit textev to say that it isn't possible, but I'm going to say it's not anyway, for several reasons:

1) A hyper generator is required to cross the wall between bands in either direction, and doing so moves the whole of the object inside the generator field across the wall, which would sever the 'scope from its ship.

2) Given that each point in h-space corresponds to a point in n-space, but the points in h-space are closer together, the ship in the alpha band would have to be effectively stationary to use it's scope: with a velocity multiplier of x62 in the alpha band, if the ship was traveling at even 0.02c, it's scope in n-space would be traveling FTL.

3) If it was possible, it would have been done by now. The advantages in stealth reconnaisance of enemy systems would be too great not to.

4) Following from 3, if it was possible to build a ship that could extend a 'periscope' across the alpha wall into n-space, then it would be possible to build a comm relay that could extend an antenna across the wall into h-space, in which case it wouldn't be necessary to use relay destroyers to pull the 'ambush force in h-space' trick per Second Battle of March, Battle of Solon, Second Manticore etc.

Would FTL communications work in hyperspace? Could a series of FTL relays be placed stationary in hyperspace to communicate quickly between systems?

Lord Skimper wrote:Would FTL communications work in hyperspace? Could a series of FTL relays be placed stationary in hyperspace to communicate quickly between systems?

Yes, they do work.
http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/157/1

We have had several long and detailed arguments on this forum in the past on the concept of FTL comm relays in upper bands of hyperspace. The usual assumption is that the range is similar to ship detection range (20 light-minutes). You probably need redundancy to avoid interruption. That means you need hundreds of relays between each pair of star systems. You also need ships at each end constantly moving from normal space to upper hyper and back, transferring incoming and outgoing messages. You also have problems of station-keeping, maintenance, defense, communication security, and (until FTL comm is no longer a secret) exposure of classified equipment. Assuming you want the fastest possible communication, it would have to go into the bands that only dispatch boats go. That means that placement, maintenance, and communication transfer with normal space would all have to be done with ships using courier-level equipment and maintenance. That makes it very expensive. And even if you do this, the FTL comm relay will only be twice as fast as a dispatch boat.

I believe I can summarize the consensus from previous discussions is that technically it can be done. But there is a wide range of opinions on whether it is worth the very high cost for a communication speed only twice that of dispatch boats.

157/1 leads me to wonder if this ripple might not be a means to detect something in the alpha band. From N space.

I was thinking if you have a space station stationary in hyperspace and FTL communications between it / them, then have ships transition up to or down out to communicate between the station and the system it is "in".

Lord Skimper wrote:157/1 leads me to wonder if this ripple might not be a means to detect something in the alpha band. From N space.

I was thinking if you have a space station stationary in hyperspace and FTL communications between it / them, then have ships transition up to or down out to communicate between the station and the system it is "in".

I'm not entirely certain what you mean here. Are you suggesting having the "station" in, say, the Alpha band, detect something else in the Alpha band, then send a ship to Normal space to tell Local System Control that something is coming? That is certainly possible.

However, that "station" in the Alpha band won't be able to see anything coming in the Beta band, or any other band. In addition, if the other ship is approaching at full speed, the warning will reach Local System Control only a little before the other ship does. Detection range and accuracy in hyper is very limited. The enemy could even coast in on stealth, without wedges, and you wouldn't see them. It might be useful in some instances, but probably not very often. Once the other ship enters normal space, the transit energy is plainly visible, and the other ship is effectively at zero velocity. Twenty minutes extra warning only helps a little, and you still don't know exactly where, when, or how many ships will come out until it does.

If you are talking about something else, you'll have to explain a bit more.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about, with numbers. Suppose you have a watch station (perhaps a pair of destroyers) in the Eta band, the highest that warships go. An enemy fleet approaches at full speed--0.6 c (relative), with no stealth and blatantly not friendlies. At t=0 minutes, the enemy is 20 light-minutes (relative) from the watchers. At t=33.3 minutes, the enemy reaches the position of the destroyers and executes crash translation.

Gravitic signals from the enemy wedges travel at the speed of light in the next higher band. Unfortunately, the Theta band has a velocity multiplier only 1.164 times the multiplier of the Eta band. The watchers are fortunate that the enemy is coming in so recklessly--they can detect and identify the enemy at the extreme range of 20 light-minutes. So the signals of the enemy at a range of 20 light-minutes start at t=0. The light-speed signals of the arrive at t=20 minutes. The gravitic signals arrive at the destroyers at t=17.2 minutes.

So the earliest the watchers could give warning is at t=17.2 minutes. That warning could only contain information available at extreme range. In order to get numbers, composition, etc., the watchers would have to wait longer. The earliest possible warning only comes 16.2 minutes before the enemy crash translates into the system.

[edit]And then it will take hours before the enemy can engage.

SWM wrote:Here's an example of what I'm talking about, with numbers. Suppose you have a watch station (perhaps a pair of destroyers) in the Eta band, the highest that warships go. An enemy fleet approaches at full speed--0.6 c (relative), with no stealth and blatantly not friendlies. At t=0 minutes, the enemy is 20 light-minutes (relative) from the watchers. At t=33.3 minutes, the enemy reaches the position of the destroyers and executes crash translation.

Gravitic signals from the enemy wedges travel at the speed of light in the next higher band. Unfortunately, the Theta band has a velocity multiplier only 1.164 times the multiplier of the Eta band. The watchers are fortunate that the enemy is coming in so recklessly--they can detect and identify the enemy at the extreme range of 20 light-minutes. So the signals of the enemy at a range of 20 light-minutes start at t=0. The light-speed signals of the arrive at t=20 minutes. The gravitic signals arrive at the destroyers at t=17.2 minutes.

So the earliest the watchers could give warning is at t=17.2 minutes. That warning could only contain information available at extreme range. In order to get numbers, composition, etc., the watchers would have to wait longer. The earliest possible warning only comes 16.2 minutes before the enemy crash translates into the system.

[edit]And then it will take hours before the enemy can engage.

Yep. Even if you're only interested in looking for a 2nd wave hanging around waiting to 'Paul Revere' in, you're not going to be able to generate a wide enough sensor bubble in all the hyper bands to have a reasonable warning against an enemy who positions themself with even minor skill.

You just have to maneuver using the assumption there might be a trap force hovering out of sight, and adjust to reduce the damage such a surprise could bring.