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How the world views the USA.

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Re: How the world views the USA.
Post by namelessfly   » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:40 pm

namelessfly

I actually think that it is a good thing that the US be the first responder to international disasters. However; given the near universal hostility to US "imperialism", not responding to disasters might be the best tactic to inspire reevaluation. Then when the US responds, the help might be valued.

PeterZ wrote:You want to teach them a lesson? Why? If you want to isolate yourself from the world, do so. Who cares what Europe thinks of the US? Who cares what foreign free riders think of our policies?

If people want to buy our goods, talk to our companies. Do you want to sell us something? Persuade our consumers. Do they feel threatened by aggressive neighbors? Let them get their own armed forces. Does Russia or Islamics want to take over Europe? Have at it.

That's the bottom line, 'Fly. If you wish to isolate yourself, then be willing to isolate yourself in truth. Isolationism as a means of influencing other nations is almost like an empty threat. Everyone knows it is temporary, like a child holding his/her breath.

So, I am all for isolating ourselves to a large extent. I am not willing to ignore those that need help in natural disasters without severe extenuating circumstances. America may isolate itself from other nations, but Americans are people first and have obligations to other people. That obligation is personal to each individual and not something to pawn off on others through some sort of "social" or national obligation.

namelessfly wrote:I realized that the last comment about not intervening in disasters is extreme. However; given the ongoing escalation in European cynicism I think that the US refusing to intervene in a few genocides (Obama provoked the ongoing genocide in Syria) and natural disasters just might motivate the Europeans and other nations to reconsider their habitual hostility.
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Re: How the world views the USA.
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:24 pm

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OK, I agree with that sentiment. I would add that aid must be requested. If those that request the aid are most vociferous about US "Imperialism", that might be part of the extenuating circumstances I mentioned.

Its just that I don't give a flying fig about what other nations think of us. Most of those nations have their own issues.

namelessfly wrote:I actually think that it is a good thing that the US be the first responder to international disasters. However; given the near universal hostility to US "imperialism", not responding to disasters might be the best tactic to inspire reevaluation. Then when the US responds, the help might be valued.
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Re: How the world views the USA.
Post by Tenshinai   » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:09 am

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pokermind wrote:Most Americans cannot understand that the world does not view us as the savior, the good guys in white hats. But name another nation sponsoring so many 'regime changes' in recent memory? The following cartoon give an idea we use force not thought to solve problems:

Image

Is it any wonder we are not loved?

Poker

And even if quite a bit exaggerated, the cartoon also has a very valid point.

An example could be how USA is the only nation since the Mongol khanate that uses massmurder of noncombatants as a part of warfare. Some of the nastier regimes have done that kind of thing as part of occupation, but using it as warfare?

About a million Iraqi´s died for no better reason than "we have the ability to drop bombs where we please, why shouldn´t we use it?".


And "sponsoring regime changes" isn´t the important bit, sponsoring nasty regimes and dictatures, THAT is a problem.
When the only point of regime change comes back to "we want someone who will let us exploit their country as we please", well no shit sherlock, of course you´re not going to win any popularity contests.
That´s just a modern variation on bad old colonialism, something Europe learned the hard way that it was a REALLY BAD idea.
And now USA insists on NOT learning the exact same lesson.


Howard T. Map-addict wrote:I recognize the flags of Germany, Britain, and US.
The other two I guess at.
If the Map-Addict doesn't know them, who will?
Most MAPS do not have flags on them.

HTM

You don´t even recognise the Spanish flag? :shock:

Blue/white flag is Argentina.

Sometimes the US is on the receiving end of the help.
After that Oregon volcano decades ago,
Japan sent help to us.

When Katrina hit New Orleans, Sweden had our emergency response unit ready to go mostly in 24 hours, but USA kept saying "we don´t need help, don´t you come here and try to help!"...
Bigass water purification plants, powerplants and other stuff that is the standard loadout.

Could have been in New Orleans about a week before USA managed to get the same gear into place. In the end, they were sort of invited after more than 2 weeks, because USAs own effort had still not managed to get enough gear running.

The same unit arrived in the Philippines about 3 days after the recent nasty hurricane, and much of that was transit time.

We do it because we want to help and because we can. USA seems busy whining if people doesn´t worship it for whatever it does.


PeterZ wrote:Yes, I do. They have to begin acting like grownups and protect themselves from hostile neighbors. Why must we pay for their protection with blood and treasure?

:lol:

Don´t you have ANY clue? USA is the one that insisted to keep European militaries down after WWII and ever since.
You actually whine about a situation your own nation manufactured 100% deliberately! :mrgreen:

Damn, that is just so pathetic.

And with USA behaving like a spoiled brat, you talk about growing up? Hilarious.

And your pro-isolationist arguments merely cement the obvious childishness. You sound like toddlers in a sandbox.
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Re: How the world views the USA.
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:23 am

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Tenshinai wrote:

PeterZ wrote:Yes, I do. They have to begin acting like grownups and protect themselves from hostile neighbors. Why must we pay for their protection with blood and treasure?

:lol:

Don´t you have ANY clue? USA is the one that insisted to keep European militaries down after WWII and ever since.
You actually whine about a situation your own nation manufactured 100% deliberately! :mrgreen:

Damn, that is just so pathetic.

And with USA behaving like a spoiled brat, you talk about growing up? Hilarious.

And your pro-isolationist arguments merely cement the obvious childishness. You sound like toddlers in a sandbox.


Try to speak only from one side of your mouth. I never claimed the US wasn't at fault for these conditions. I simply want to let you guys deal with your own protection.

Ridiculing my position implies you want us to protect your worthless posterior and yet you call me childish? You either believe your nation can protect itself and agree with my toddler's perspective or you disagree and want momma and poppa to protect you when you leave the house.

Which is it? Decide, please. Want mommy to hold your hand while you think? I can wait.
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Re: How the world views the USA.
Post by pokermind   » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:17 am

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Ah the flag of Argentina:

Image

Thanks Image I knew the others. This is the problem, I consider myself fairly well educated, but we get little course work on the rest of the world in our schools. We Americans are mostly ignorant of the rest of the world, and the negative opinions of our country our policies have caused.

When encountered they often cause anger, mainly from not knowing the cause. Although the opinions of our international members can come as a shock might I suggest my fellow Americans use it as a learning experience. Rather than getting pissed ask, "Why do you hold this opinion?" Keep name calling down remember you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Poker
CPO Poker Mind Image and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat.

"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
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Re: How the world views the USA.
Post by Tenshinai   » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:03 am

Tenshinai
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PeterZ wrote:
Try to speak only from one side of your mouth. I never claimed the US wasn't at fault for these conditions. I simply want to let you guys deal with your own protection.

Ridiculing my position implies you want us to protect your worthless posterior and yet you call me childish? You either believe your nation can protect itself and agree with my toddler's perspective or you disagree and want momma and poppa to protect you when you leave the house.

Which is it? Decide, please. Want mommy to hold your hand while you think? I can wait.


Wow... I mean just :lol:

Epic fail.

Hello, neutral nation since the Napoleonic wars here. Haven´t been expecting anyone to defend us. Which is why Sweden had a military as it had up until the 90s.

Like the 4th largest airforce of the world in the 50s. After USA, USSR and UK. And still today remain one of the handful of makers of modern high performance combat aircraft.

And the ability to place around 800000 troops in defense of the nation, that´s about 10% of the population total.
With good enough training that they have a looong standing habit of kicking the behinds of US troops when training with or against them.

Generates around 2% of the worlds arms exports, which is about half that of the UK, despite much harder rules. And is about twice as much per capita as USA.


Guess you consider ignorance to be bliss? :lol:
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Re: How the world views the USA.
Post by Tenshinai   » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:05 am

Tenshinai
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pokermind wrote:Ah the flag of Argentina:

Image

Thanks Image I knew the others. This is the problem, I consider myself fairly well educated, but we get little course work on the rest of the world in our schools. We Americans are mostly ignorant of the rest of the world, and the negative opinions of our country our policies have caused.

When encountered they often cause anger, mainly from not knowing the cause. Although the opinions of our international members can come as a shock might I suggest my fellow Americans use it as a learning experience. Rather than getting pissed ask, "Why do you hold this opinion?" Keep name calling down remember you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Poker


While it may not be perfectly true, this quote by Terry Pratchett holds a bit of a clue:

>That seems to point up a significant difference between Europeans and
Americans. A European says: "I can't understand this, what's wrong with
me?" An American says: "I can't understand this, what's wrong with him?"<
-- (Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett)
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Re: How the world views the USA.
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:22 pm

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Lord, you are more self centered than most American progressives.
If you agree that nations should protect themselves like your vaunted Sweden, then you are calling both our positions childish.

That in itself seems childish. So, please do grow up.


Tenshinai wrote:
PeterZ wrote:
Try to speak only from one side of your mouth. I never claimed the US wasn't at fault for these conditions. I simply want to let you guys deal with your own protection.

Ridiculing my position implies you want us to protect your worthless posterior and yet you call me childish? You either believe your nation can protect itself and agree with my toddler's perspective or you disagree and want momma and poppa to protect you when you leave the house.

Which is it? Decide, please. Want mommy to hold your hand while you think? I can wait.


Wow... I mean just :lol:

Epic fail.

Hello, neutral nation since the Napoleonic wars here. Haven´t been expecting anyone to defend us. Which is why Sweden had a military as it had up until the 90s.

Like the 4th largest airforce of the world in the 50s. After USA, USSR and UK. And still today remain one of the handful of makers of modern high performance combat aircraft.

And the ability to place around 800000 troops in defense of the nation, that´s about 10% of the population total.
With good enough training that they have a looong standing habit of kicking the behinds of US troops when training with or against them.

Generates around 2% of the worlds arms exports, which is about half that of the UK, despite much harder rules. And is about twice as much per capita as USA.


Guess you consider ignorance to be bliss? :lol:
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Re: How the world views the USA.
Post by KNick   » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:33 pm

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Location: Billings, MT, USA

One of the US's biggest problems in the field of immigration today is the fact that as the children and grandchildren of immigrants, we have forgotten that our grandparents held on to their beliefs and childhood way of life even after they arrived in the US. Some times holding those beliefs the remainder of their life. It takes a generation or two to become assimilated into the culture of a new country. It takes time and education and exposure to the culture of the new land. Yet, we seem to expect new immigrants to behave as if they had been here their entire life. One hundred years ago, that was not a big problem. Information flowed at a slower rate, as did the style of life. Now, information flows at the speed of a keyboard and light and life has become faster paced, as well. However, people change just as slowly now as they did one hundred years ago. It seems that now we, as a culture, are no longer willing to give our new residents time to become incorporated into our way of life, expecting instant change, instead.
_


Try to take a fisherman's fish and you will be tomorrows bait!!!
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Re: How the world views the USA.
Post by Tenshinai   » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:37 pm

Tenshinai
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Posts: 2893
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PeterZ wrote:Lord, you are more self centered than most American progressives.
If you agree that nations should protect themselves like your vaunted Sweden, then you are calling both our positions childish.

That in itself seems childish. So, please do grow up.



:lol:

It doesn´t become more true just because you repeat it.
If you can´t read and understand, well that´s your problem.
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