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Re: US Government shutdown | |
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by Spacekiwi » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:55 pm | |
Spacekiwi
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Just as an aside, kiwis spend approximately $2500 US per head on medical treatment, and we cover all immigrants and tourists. approximately 75% of this is from the govt, so our govt spends $1880 a head on heath. The US govt spends 3400, or on the way to twice what we do, and 17% of your population is medivally uninsured. A study by the NIH found the US to have pretty much the highest rates of infant mortality, heart and lung disease, teen pregnancies, injuries, homicides and sti's.
the commonwealth fund ranks the US as worse performing in every statistic than NZ, despite spending more. Something in your system is screwed up. `
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ its not paranoia if its justified... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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Re: US Government shutdown | |
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by Daryl » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:16 am | |
Daryl
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I'll keep looking for a similar figure for Australia, but in the meantime my wife and I between us pay $400 for basic Medicare, and $2652 for total private cover. This entitles us to as good a care as is possible for as long as possible. The Medicare payment is variable based on age and income, so a younger couple both in good jobs would pay about $1600 for it. Thus $2162 per person would be a reasonable estimate given that the system is supposed to be self funded. Seems similar to the Kiwi level of cost, and friends who have lived in the US claim that healthcare was both much dearer and not as accessible as here.
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Re: US Government shutdown | |
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by thinkstoomuch » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:14 am | |
thinkstoomuch
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Life expectancy comparisons is more or less useless IMO. But then again I am of the better to burn out than fade away school. I am most likely going to subtract from the US average. Of course I also pay my own way.
Did you check any of her supporting sources. This one: http://council.brandeis.edu/pdfs/2011/U ... t_5.25.pdf He cherry picks GDP to taxes data. The year he picks is ~25% lower than either side. Though I agree with the sentiment he espouses with that data. If I presented it here and I didn't get called on it shame on all of you. Wait, I did(sort of more of a gloss over) and in less than 24 hours it was pointed out to me. Not even going to go any farther. Though single payer is not what he recommends. If it is of any worth. If her first real source is this screwed up not worth my time. Lets go look for stuff on the internet (it must be true) to support her position, non-thought required, splat it on the screen. Maybe it will stick. If ACA was such a good system why isn't Congress required? Oh the old 1984 "Some animals are more equal than others." Maybe Congress should all go to the VA for their treatment another wonderful US System of Health Care in their home districts/States. If the government is so good at providing for people take a look right there in Oregon. Wonderful American-Indian History Museum in Warm Springs. Simplified, life there didn't all that good until they found a niche(capital producing for the three tribes). Or worse yet go to South Dakota and see what the Lakota have gotten out of Federal promises to provide for them. Maybe read a Tony Hillerman's Leaphorn/Chee novels. They are fairly accurate from what I have seen in my visits to the area(good mystery stories too). T2M
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Q: “How can something be worth more than it costs? Isn’t everything ‘worth’ what it costs?” A: “No. That’s just the price. ... Christopher Anvil from Top Line in "War Games" |
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Re: US Government shutdown | |
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by thinkstoomuch » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:30 am | |
thinkstoomuch
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What is "prohibitively" expensive? My sisters don't think so. Neither do the brothers that I talk to about it.
Do they wish it cost less, sure enough. But they buy it and think it is a good investment. Say the same thing about the electricity and phone as well. Not going to the website as Fox news like MSNBC are such bandwidth hogs they take forever to load. T2M PS: Now I have had another door to door person show up to my door at dinner time. She was worse than the "Bible Thumpers" she was trying to save me. At least when I close the door to them saying "No thank you," they take the hint. Her mission was to save me so she would talk to the door. Bump that. Good way to win friends and influence people.
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Q: “How can something be worth more than it costs? Isn’t everything ‘worth’ what it costs?” A: “No. That’s just the price. ... Christopher Anvil from Top Line in "War Games" |
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Re: US Government shutdown | |
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by Donnachaidh » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:25 am | |
Donnachaidh
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I'd call $20,000+ per year prohibitively.
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"Sometimes I wonder if the world is run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain |
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Re: US Government shutdown | |
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by namelessfly » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:41 pm | |
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I am going to really risk offending people here, but almost all of the mortality and health statistics for the US are severely skewed by the African American population. AAs are only 1/8 of the population yet they COMMIT over 1/2 of all homicides and nearly 2/3s of all gun homicides. All of the focus on gun homicides conceals the fact that the US has an appallingly high rate of homicides of young children (younger than 11), 80% of which are NOT killed with guns. Almost all homicides of young children in the US are committed by mothers, mothers' boyfriends, putative fathers, step fathers and step-siblings. Until very recently AAs were murdering their children at a rate five times higher than the general populantion. Currently AAs murder their own children at a rate of "ONLY" three times higher than whites. The extreme murder rate of AA children is likely the result of chaotic family structures resulting from the extremely high rate of out of wedlock births and extra-pair paternity. Teen regency rates are much higher than AAs that for the rest of the population as are STDs. Obesity is rampant in the US, but a grossly disproportionately higher among African Americans. They are far morevsuseptible to diabetes as a result. Smoking is far more prevalent among AAs than among the rest of the population. While rates of sporadic drug abuse are comparable between whites and AAs, AAs are far more likely to be habitual abusers. Of course it is not PC to admit these truths, but they are real. If you correct t for the unique social pathologies of the AA community, the US has very normal rates of mortality, violent crime and other problems. |
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Re: US Government shutdown | |
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by Donnachaidh » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:29 pm | |
Donnachaidh
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Here's the text from that link:
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"Sometimes I wonder if the world is run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain |
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Re: US Government shutdown | |
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by Spacekiwi » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:29 pm | |
Spacekiwi
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So, effectively the same as the maori population in NZ then, judging by our statistics. 12.5% of population, and almost 50% of the crimes. The stats show Maori have an almost 5 times higher than normal abuse rate of children here. So the US is not unique in this fact.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ its not paranoia if its justified... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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Re: US Government shutdown | |
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by thinkstoomuch » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:35 pm | |
thinkstoomuch
Posts: 2727
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Wonder if she found that wonderful shop and browse feature.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162- ... -the-mark/ Quote (CBS News) CBS News has uncovered a serious pricing problem with HealthCare.gov. It stems from the Obama administration's efforts to improve its health care website. A new online feature can dramatically underestimate the cost of insurance. End Quote I would not think so if I followed your pasted information correctly, timeline wise. But not sure. The money isn't saved until the coverage is in effect and it is paid for. With my motorcycle insurance it happens before I sign off. Not so much from what I understand of HealthCare.gov, all the info has to get sent to the insurance company. It wouldn't be the first bait and switch example but ... Or even accidentally entered incorrect data. Not that I ever typed something that was provably false. Thank you for posting the text Guess I will have to bite the bullet and go look myself. <shudder> T2M
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Q: “How can something be worth more than it costs? Isn’t everything ‘worth’ what it costs?” A: “No. That’s just the price. ... Christopher Anvil from Top Line in "War Games" |
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Re: US Government shutdown | |
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by Daryl » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:57 pm | |
Daryl
Posts: 3570
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I'd sadly have to agree with Spacekiwi and Namelessfly regarding group statistics. It is more pronounced in Australia in that our indigenous community only makes up about 2% of the population, yet their overall situation is so dire that it skews our national statistics. Australians routinely come in the top five for life expectancy, yet white Australians taken separately are significantly ahead. I don't know the answer as to how to help them, even though years ago I was one of (if not the) chief government policy advisors on the matter. The problem isn't anything to do with racial genetics (individually just as smart and just as potentially healthy as anyone else), but all to do with social disadvantage, and throwing money at the problem has probably made it worse.
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