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US Government shutdown

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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by Spacekiwi   » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:55 pm

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Just as an aside, kiwis spend approximately $2500 US per head on medical treatment, and we cover all immigrants and tourists. approximately 75% of this is from the govt, so our govt spends $1880 a head on heath. The US govt spends 3400, or on the way to twice what we do, and 17% of your population is medivally uninsured. A study by the NIH found the US to have pretty much the highest rates of infant mortality, heart and lung disease, teen pregnancies, injuries, homicides and sti's.
the commonwealth fund ranks the US as worse performing in every statistic than NZ, despite spending more. Something in your system is screwed up.
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by Daryl   » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:16 am

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I'll keep looking for a similar figure for Australia, but in the meantime my wife and I between us pay $400 for basic Medicare, and $2652 for total private cover. This entitles us to as good a care as is possible for as long as possible. The Medicare payment is variable based on age and income, so a younger couple both in good jobs would pay about $1600 for it. Thus $2162 per person would be a reasonable estimate given that the system is supposed to be self funded. Seems similar to the Kiwi level of cost, and friends who have lived in the US claim that healthcare was both much dearer and not as accessible as here.
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by thinkstoomuch   » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:14 am

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Life expectancy comparisons is more or less useless IMO. But then again I am of the better to burn out than fade away school. I am most likely going to subtract from the US average. Of course I also pay my own way.

Did you check any of her supporting sources.

This one:
http://council.brandeis.edu/pdfs/2011/U ... t_5.25.pdf

He cherry picks GDP to taxes data. The year he picks is ~25% lower than either side. Though I agree with the sentiment he espouses with that data. If I presented it here and I didn't get called on it shame on all of you.

Wait, I did(sort of more of a gloss over) and in less than 24 hours it was pointed out to me.

Not even going to go any farther. Though single payer is not what he recommends. If it is of any worth.

If her first real source is this screwed up not worth my time. Lets go look for stuff on the internet (it must be true) to support her position, non-thought required, splat it on the screen. Maybe it will stick.

If ACA was such a good system why isn't Congress required? Oh the old 1984 "Some animals are more equal than others." Maybe Congress should all go to the VA for their treatment another wonderful US System of Health Care in their home districts/States.

If the government is so good at providing for people take a look right there in Oregon. Wonderful American-Indian History Museum in Warm Springs. Simplified, life there didn't all that good until they found a niche(capital producing for the three tribes). Or worse yet go to South Dakota and see what the Lakota have gotten out of Federal promises to provide for them. Maybe read a Tony Hillerman's Leaphorn/Chee novels. They are fairly accurate from what I have seen in my visits to the area(good mystery stories too).

T2M

Donnachaidh wrote:Well there's the example that I shared with SpaceKiwi. I have never been able to find anyone who could name what actual value the insurance industry adds to the healthcare, nor have I been able to come up with one. The insurance industry has been a big contributor to increased health costs. Insurance companies have had the power to dictate which treatments doctors use.

Yes, as a whole the Federal Government is fairly non-functional. However there are some agencies that are functional, an example of this is Medicare which falls under the Department of Health and Human Services (http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/)
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Q: “How can something be worth more than it costs? Isn’t everything ‘worth’ what it costs?”
A: “No. That’s just the price. ...
Christopher Anvil from Top Line in "War Games"
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by thinkstoomuch   » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:30 am

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What is "prohibitively" expensive? My sisters don't think so. Neither do the brothers that I talk to about it.

Do they wish it cost less, sure enough. But they buy it and think it is a good investment. Say the same thing about the electricity and phone as well.

Not going to the website as Fox news like MSNBC are such bandwidth hogs they take forever to load.

T2M

PS: Now I have had another door to door person show up to my door at dinner time. She was worse than the "Bible Thumpers" she was trying to save me. At least when I close the door to them saying "No thank you," they take the hint. Her mission was to save me so she would talk to the door. Bump that. Good way to win friends and influence people.

Donnachaidh wrote:...snip...
Here's an example of why it is necessary:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/21/was-obamacare-guinea-pig/?utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_term=10+Things+In+Tech+You+Need+To+Know&utm_campaign=Post+Blast+%28sai%29%3A+10+Things+You+Need+To+Know+This+Morning+In+Tech
If you are unable to get insurance through your employer it has been prohibitively expensive for many years. Most people are unaware of this because their employer does provide health insurance. Because of the Affordable Care Act, companies with more the 50 full time equivalent employees must provide an affordable option (defined as 9.5% of wages) (though they do not have to provide an affordable family option) that pays a minimum of 60% of covered costs. https://www.healthcare.gov/what-is-the-employer-shared-responsibility-payment/


...snip...
-----------------------
Q: “How can something be worth more than it costs? Isn’t everything ‘worth’ what it costs?”
A: “No. That’s just the price. ...
Christopher Anvil from Top Line in "War Games"
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by Donnachaidh   » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:25 am

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I'd call $20,000+ per year prohibitively.

thinkstoomuch wrote:What is "prohibitively" expensive? My sisters don't think so. Neither do the brothers that I talk to about it.

Do they wish it cost less, sure enough. But they buy it and think it is a good investment. Say the same thing about the electricity and phone as well.

Not going to the website as Fox news like MSNBC are such bandwidth hogs they take forever to load.

T2M

PS: Now I have had another door to door person show up to my door at dinner time. She was worse than the "Bible Thumpers" she was trying to save me. At least when I close the door to them saying "No thank you," they take the hint. Her mission was to save me so she would talk to the door. Bump that. Good way to win friends and influence people.

Donnachaidh wrote:...snip...
Here's an example of why it is necessary:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/21/was-obamacare-guinea-pig/?utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_term=10+Things+In+Tech+You+Need+To+Know&utm_campaign=Post+Blast+%28sai%29%3A+10+Things+You+Need+To+Know+This+Morning+In+Tech
If you are unable to get insurance through your employer it has been prohibitively expensive for many years. Most people are unaware of this because their employer does provide health insurance. Because of the Affordable Care Act, companies with more the 50 full time equivalent employees must provide an affordable option (defined as 9.5% of wages) (though they do not have to provide an affordable family option) that pays a minimum of 60% of covered costs. https://www.healthcare.gov/what-is-the-employer-shared-responsibility-payment/


...snip...
_____________________________________________________
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by namelessfly   » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:41 pm

namelessfly

Spacekiwi wrote:Just as an aside, kiwis spend approximately $2500 US per head on medical treatment, and we cover all immigrants and tourists. approximately 75% of this is from the govt, so our govt spends $1880 a head on heath. The US govt spends 3400, or on the way to twice what we do, and 17% of your population is medivally uninsured. A study by the NIH found the US to have pretty much the highest rates of infant mortality, heart and lung disease, teen pregnancies, injuries, homicides and sti's.
the commonwealth fund ranks the US as worse performing in every statistic than NZ, despite spending more. Something in your system is screwed up.



I am going to really risk offending people here, but almost all of the mortality and health statistics for the US are severely skewed by the African American population. AAs are only 1/8 of the population yet they COMMIT over 1/2 of all homicides and nearly 2/3s of all gun homicides. All of the focus on gun homicides conceals the fact that the US has an appallingly high rate of homicides of young children (younger than 11), 80% of which are NOT killed with guns. Almost all homicides of young children in the US are committed by mothers, mothers' boyfriends, putative fathers, step fathers and step-siblings. Until very recently AAs were murdering their children at a rate five times higher than the general populantion. Currently AAs murder their own children at a rate of "ONLY" three times higher than whites.

The extreme murder rate of AA children is likely the result of chaotic family structures resulting from the extremely high rate of out of wedlock births and extra-pair paternity. Teen regency rates are much higher than AAs that for the rest of the population as are STDs.

Obesity is rampant in the US, but a grossly disproportionately higher among African Americans. They are far morevsuseptible to diabetes as a result.

Smoking is far more prevalent among AAs than among the rest of the population.

While rates of sporadic drug abuse are comparable between whites and AAs, AAs are far more likely to be habitual abusers.

Of course it is not PC to admit these truths, but they are real. If you correct t for the unique social pathologies of the AA community, the US has very normal rates of mortality, violent crime and other problems.
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by Donnachaidh   » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:29 pm

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Here's the text from that link:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/21/was-obamacare-guinea-pig/?utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_term=10+Things+In+Tech+You+Need+To+Know&utm_campaign=Post+Blast+%28sai%29%3A+10+Things+You+Need+To+Know+This+Morning+In+Tech wrote:
I was an ObamaCare guinea pig
By Sally Kohn Published October 21, 2013FoxNews.com

I signed up. I saved. And so will millions of Americans.

Honestly, I couldn’t wait to sign up for ObamaCare — not because I talk about it on television, but because I’m tired of being ripped off by my insurance company.

I live in New York State — which for several decades has had the highest individual insurance premiums in the nation.

For the past three years, since leaving a job at a non-profit organization and then exhausting my COBRA, I have relied on the individual insurance market to get coverage for myself, my partner and our daughter.

Ideologues may not like ObamaCare, but my wallet and my family’s health sure do.
Three years ago when I was shopping for insurance, there weren’t that many options to choose from. And the plan I ended up with is expensive and, to put it bluntly, crappy.

Currently, I pay $965 per month for family coverage that includes:

• a whopping $7,000 deductible;

• $36,000 out-of-pocket max per year;

• an annual coverage limit of $2,000,000;

• a $35 co-pay for doctor’s visits ($55 for specialists); and

• a $15 co-pay for generic prescriptions.

All this plus the plan has very limited out-of-network coverage that, I found out the hard way, is subject to such a gauntlet of procedural hurdles that my family has spent thousands of dollars in so-far-unreimbursed out-of-network expenses.

I’m not going to tell you who my current provider is, though I’m inclined to purely out of loathing and spite. But for the record, for over a year I paid for their version of “gold” coverage that had a $3,000 deductible, only a $25 doctor’s co-pay and a $6,000 out-of-pocket max.

But that plan didn’t process any of my reimbursements either and cost a whopping $1,687 per month. That’s over $20,000 per year!

You can see why, regardless of what party I vote for, I was excited to have some more affordable options.

So I logged onto the New York State health insurance exchange website. Yeah, I had a few false starts — the website was down a lot early on either because of service glitches or overwhelming traffic.

For a few days, I couldn’t do anything at all on the website.

Then for a day or so I could “log-in” but not complete registration. And then for a day, I could answer the questions to complete my registration but not actually complete the process.

On one occasion, I got so frustrated at the stalled exchange website that I actually shook my computer.

Not pleasant.

But finally, early on the first Saturday morning following the launch of the exchange site — probably because the rest of the state (unlike my five-year-old) was still asleep -- I was able to log-in and complete my registration and check out all my options for insurance.

There were literally 50 plans that were better than my current insurance -- both with lower premiums, lower out-of-pocket costs and better coverage. And there were ten plans with a higher premium than my current insurance, but with lower deductibles.

So -- and here’s an important point -- the reason that more people haven’t signed up for coverage yet is probably that, just like me, they needed to take some time (and first, find some time!) to weigh all the options.

While the exchange site was user-friendly and explained my options in a clear and simple way, picking an insurance plan isn’t exactly like ordering a hamburger. It took a minute to find my calculator and think about the options.

Within a week, I had settled on a “gold” plan offered by Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield. The plan includes:

• a $2,000 total deductible;

• an out-of-pocket max of $12,500 for the year;

• a $30 co-pay for visits to our primary care doctor;

• a $15 co-pay for generic prescriptions;

• NO annual coverage limit — because that’s now prohibited thanks to the Affordable Care Act; plus

• an added bonus: the plan I selected includes child dental.

This option will cost my family $931 per month — $408 per year less than my previous crappy plan and a $5,000 savings in deductibles. A big win for me and my family financially and in terms of what’s covered.

Plus in the past, I spent several days looking for and comparing insurance options. Under ObamaCare, even with the slow and sticky website, I spent a total of four hours — to save over $5,400. That kind of return on investment would make Warren Buffett drool.

Counter to wild stories about the government taking over health care, the exchange was simply a public portal to a range of all-private insurance options. I went with a “gold” plan for lower deductible and out-of-pocket costs. And I chose Blue Cross Blue Shield because my current primary doctor is in-network.

But one of the most exciting things is the new companies providing private insurance through the exchange; I’ll be watching the reviews over the next year and might change plans when re-enrollment comes around.

As of October 20, the Associated Press reported that 476,000 Americans had filled out insurance applications through the federal and state exchanges. Not bad, considering the poor performance of the sign-up websites.

But it’s only been 20 days since the exchanges launched, and folks have 60 more days (through December 15) to sign up for coverage to take effect on January 1, 2014. And people have 60 days after that (February 15) before the individual mandate penalty kicks in.

In other words, there’s still plenty of time to fix the websites and for more Americans to enroll — and save. Meanwhile, we know that in a state like Oregon, ObamaCare has already reduced the number of uninsured individuals by 10%. Glitches aside, that’s a great start.

We’ve suffered through four years of outlandish attacks against ObamaCare -- that it will kill our grandmothers, or at least just kill our economy. But the fact is that ObamaCare has created a private marketplace so that millions of American families like mine can get affordable, quality health insurance while keeping more of our hard-earned money.

Ideologues may not like ObamaCare, but my wallet and my family’s health sure do.


Sally Kohn is a Fox News contributor and writer. You can find her online at http://sallykohn.com or on Twitter at http://twitter.com/sallykohn.



thinkstoomuch wrote:Not going to the website as Fox news like MSNBC are such bandwidth hogs they take forever to load.
_____________________________________________________
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by Spacekiwi   » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:29 pm

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So, effectively the same as the maori population in NZ then, judging by our statistics. 12.5% of population, and almost 50% of the crimes. The stats show Maori have an almost 5 times higher than normal abuse rate of children here. So the US is not unique in this fact.

namelessfly wrote:I am going to really risk offending people here, but almost all of the mortality and health statistics for the US are severely skewed by the African American population. AAs are only 1/8 of the population yet they COMMIT over 1/2 of all homicides and nearly 2/3s of all gun homicides. All of the focus on gun homicides conceals the fact that the US has an appallingly high rate of homicides of young children (younger than 11), 80% of which are NOT killed with guns. Almost all homicides of young children in the US are committed by mothers, mothers' boyfriends, putative fathers, step fathers and step-siblings. Until very recently AAs were murdering their children at a rate five times higher than the general populantion. Currently AAs murder their own children at a rate of "ONLY" three times higher than whites.

The extreme murder rate of AA children is likely the result of chaotic family structures resulting from the extremely high rate of out of wedlock births and extra-pair paternity. Teen regency rates are much higher than AAs that for the rest of the population as are STDs.

Obesity is rampant in the US, but a grossly disproportionately higher among African Americans. They are far morevsuseptible to diabetes as a result.

Smoking is far more prevalent among AAs than among the rest of the population.

While rates of sporadic drug abuse are comparable between whites and AAs, AAs are far more likely to be habitual abusers.

Of course it is not PC to admit these truths, but they are real. If you correct t for the unique social pathologies of the AA community, the US has very normal rates of mortality, violent crime and other problems.
`
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
its not paranoia if its justified... :D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by thinkstoomuch   » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:35 pm

thinkstoomuch
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:05 pm
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Wonder if she found that wonderful shop and browse feature.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162- ... -the-mark/

Quote
(CBS News) CBS News has uncovered a serious pricing problem with HealthCare.gov. It stems from the Obama administration's efforts to improve its health care website. A new online feature can dramatically underestimate the cost of insurance.
End Quote

I would not think so if I followed your pasted information correctly, timeline wise. But not sure.

The money isn't saved until the coverage is in effect and it is paid for. With my motorcycle insurance it happens before I sign off. Not so much from what I understand of HealthCare.gov, all the info has to get sent to the insurance company.

It wouldn't be the first bait and switch example but ...

Or even accidentally entered incorrect data. Not that I ever typed something that was provably false. :lol:

Thank you for posting the text Guess I will have to bite the bullet and go look myself. <shudder>

T2M

Donnachaidh wrote:Here's the text from that link:

...snipped for be kind to scroll wheels day :-)...
-----------------------
Q: “How can something be worth more than it costs? Isn’t everything ‘worth’ what it costs?”
A: “No. That’s just the price. ...
Christopher Anvil from Top Line in "War Games"
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by Daryl   » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:57 pm

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Posts: 3570
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Location: Queensland Australia

I'd sadly have to agree with Spacekiwi and Namelessfly regarding group statistics. It is more pronounced in Australia in that our indigenous community only makes up about 2% of the population, yet their overall situation is so dire that it skews our national statistics. Australians routinely come in the top five for life expectancy, yet white Australians taken separately are significantly ahead. I don't know the answer as to how to help them, even though years ago I was one of (if not the) chief government policy advisors on the matter. The problem isn't anything to do with racial genetics (individually just as smart and just as potentially healthy as anyone else), but all to do with social disadvantage, and throwing money at the problem has probably made it worse.
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