US Government shutdown

Federal and State and local law enforcement have been hollow point and other types of ammunition that are banned under the Hague and Geneva Conventions for decades.

Think before you speak.

namelessfly wrote:

Invictus wrote:That was exactly my point. This is ammo that can only be used on non state actors; ie, rioters, rebels, militias, etc.

Let me get this straight. It is not a violation of international treaties for President Obama's goon squads to use their 1.6 Billion rounds of ammunition to shoot American citizens?

Okay, then I will not hesitate to shoot the goon squads with Armor Piercing Incendiary rounds. Does wonders on automobile fuel tanks. Smoked pork anyone?

Two extreme examples. Israeli sky marshals use mercury and rat shot filled projectiles that don't penetrate aircraft sides but take out a 3 inch hemisphere of flesh on humans.` On the other hand I once joined in an official test of a bullet proof vest with ceramic insert that the maker asserted would stop any personal fire arm. It stopped the M16 (5.56mm) and just stopped the 7.62 mm Nato, but my 30-06 APs went through it and the dummy. Not fair, tell it to the terrorists.

Donnachaidh wrote:Federal and State and local law enforcement have been hollow point and other types of ammunition that are banned under the Hague and Geneva Conventions for decades.

Think before you speak.

I do think before I speak and I am extremely cognizant of the fact that civilian law enforcement has been using hollow point ammunition routinely.

I am also far, far more familiar than just about anyone with the fact that the number of shootings and killings by police has increased in recent decades. While many of these shootings are eminently justified, a disturbing trend is the obvious cases where the police are motivated to use excessive force by arrogance, authoritarianism and unreasonable fear.

Cops who have been conditioned by the gun control lobby's propaganda about "cop killer" bullets and "cop killer" guns to suffer from a Freudian phobia of being outgunned by the criminals have an alarming tendency to be trigger happy.

You factor in this established trend of excessive force with the Obama administration stockpiling 1.6 BILILLION rounds of hollow point ammunition for pistols and assault rifles that is NOT being used for training and you should worry. Why do the Federal goons think that they need to have enough hollow point bullets to shoot every man, woman and child in the country five times each?

If you paid any attention to history, you would know that the twentieth century saw far more people systematically exterminated by their own government's police forces than were killed by foreign invaders. These genocidal events were always preceded by a propaganda campaign to demonize political opponents to justify exterminating them.

This entire thread that is intended to inflame public alarm over what has been an unusual but not unprecedented political maneuver is an example of that tactic of demonization.

Now we have our imbecile President squandering money during the alleged government shut down to send out his goon squads to intimidate the few surviving WW-2 veterans who are simply trying to visit the open air war memorial that so few of them lived long enough to see
built.

In case you don't know it, there is a million veteran march on the war memorials this weekend. If Obama's goons decide to reenact Patton and McCarthur's massacre of the Bonus Marchers, things will get uglier than you can possibly imagine.

it will only get ugly when we get the congress people holding the rest of the nation hostage to their ideals to face justice. They will cry foul because they want to institute a theocracy here in america

And assuming one policeman/woman per 500 citizens gives around 800,000 cops in the US, assuming a pop of 400 million. 1,600,000,000 divided by 800,000 is 2,000 per person. For pistols and rifles, so assuming equal split of ammo, 1000 each. and of that, how much is going to be used in training, and how long is that ammo supposed to last? is it one years supply? 2? if 2, that means a cop could on average fire around 1~2 bullets a day from each gun to have enough to last. For America, 1.6 Billion rounds of ammo is not that much.

namelessfly wrote:
You factor in this established trend of excessive force with the Obama administration stockpiling 1.6 BILILLION rounds of hollow point ammunition for pistols and assault rifles that is NOT being used for training and you should worry. Why do the Federal goons think that they need to have enough hollow point bullets to shoot every man, woman and child in the country five times each?\

Please excuse me Namelessfly on this, but I've been a (possibly the leading) supporter of your right to speak your mind, yet the statement "This entire thread that is intended to inflame public alarm over what has been an unusual but not unprecedented political maneuver is an example of that tactic of demonization.", is unfair.
As the originator I had no intention of inflaming public opinion and in my original post begged people to be nice and discuss this in a polite way.

I'm not an American, have no connection with any political party (US or Australian), and started this thread with an honest request to be informed.
I still don't understand the US mindset after reading all the posts. On one side I cannot understand how the US can't do as all other responsible developed nations do and balance their budget by raising taxes to meet their outgoings; yet on the other hand I am still not educated as to how a pathetically inadequate healthcare system is a step too far along the "socialism" road.

I cannot understand how the US can't do as all other responsible developed nations do and balance their budget by raising taxes to meet their outgoings

There is no political support to raise taxes. Basically because almost no one in the entire country trusts the government on this issue. Historically the government has had a very bad track record. They get support to raise taxes to fix the deficit, then a few years later are back to deficit spending again because with all this extra money they find new things to spend money on instead of using it as it was originally intended. After being burned multiple times, the population doesn't trust them anymore and are demanding budget cuts. Unfortunately, all the people they have been shoveling money to over the years have mastered the political machine and are able to manipulate it to avoid cuts to their favorite programs.

The only time in the last eighty years that we have had a balanced budget in the US was 2001. It was the result of a moderate democratic Senator teaming with a conservative Republican in creating Graham Rudmann - an act that made anyone proposing a spending bill also demonstrate where the money to pay for it was coming from. That coupled with a moderate democratic President and Republican House speaker (Gingrich) who was vile enough to be thrown out by his own party after one term resulted in a steadily decreasing deficit until the loonies took over and the Bush executive branch insisted that a tax cut was warranted since the budget had been balanced, 9/11 required scrapping any budget control act, and by starting two wars the deficit went from nothing to more than a trillion a year. There is a lot of truth to the assertions that Social Security, Medicare and other entitlements need overhaul. But the biggest problems were caused directly by those who claim they are the only ones who can fix it.

Thank you for a thoughtful post.

You forgot the added flat rate income tax that used to be the Social Security Trust fund. So, that so called balanced budget was achieved by robbing Peter to pay Paul via an IOU. Which I never realized until this year when the 2% tax holiday miraculously reduced the federal deficit. "Huh, how does a SSA increase the government's revenue?" Followed by looking thru the numbers.

Plus it would be nice if the US Government would actually have an approved budget for the future instead of living pay check to pay check with Continuing Resolutions. Good way to end up become trailer trash (not that I object to trailer trash but not the way I want the government with all those so-called smart people to run my country).

Also to correct some erroneous data.
From
http://www.usfederalbudget.us/federal_d ... chart.html
Quote
FY 2012: $1,087 billion
FY 2011: $1,300 billion
FY 2010: $1,294 billion
Bush Deficits
FY 2009†: $1,413 billion
FY 2008: $458 billion
FY 2007: $161 billion
FY 2006: $248 billion
FY 2005: $318 billion

† Some people have emailed to insist that the FY 2009 deficit should be assigned to Obama. Sorta.
End Quote

Notice that Deficits were going back down until 2007 when the Democrats took over both houses. Then started going back down when the Republicans took over the House of Representatives.

Not saying that what President Bush did with the rebates was correct. Hell anything he did was right(I am not a fan better than the choices but that doesn't say much).

But for whatever reason the facts really don't support all those assertions.

Lot more goes into all this than most people think and a simple answer is not going to solve any of it. The only thing I can say is what has been happening for the last 6 years is not the way to go.

Have fun,
T2M

ksandgren wrote:The only time in the last eighty years that we have had a balanced budget in the US was 2001. It was the result of a moderate democratic Senator teaming with a conservative Republican in creating Graham Rudmann - an act that made anyone proposing a spending bill also demonstrate where the money to pay for it was coming from. That coupled with a moderate democratic President and Republican House speaker (Gingrich) who was vile enough to be thrown out by his own party after one term resulted in a steadily decreasing deficit until the loonies took over and the Bush executive branch insisted that a tax cut was warranted since the budget had been balanced, 9/11 required scrapping any budget control act, and by starting two wars the deficit went from nothing to more than a trillion a year. There is a lot of truth to the assertions that Social Security, Medicare and other entitlements need overhaul. But the biggest problems were caused directly by those who claim they are the only ones who can fix it.

It's always seemed to me that not having a budget is never the way to go. Whether it's an individual, a company, or any level of government.

The lack of budget is something that every single member of congress is responsible for. The fact is both sides are playing politics with the budget.

thinkstoomuch wrote:The only thing I can say is what has been happening for the last 6 years is not the way to go.