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US Government shutdown

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US Government shutdown
Post by Daryl   » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:03 am

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Please be nice in response and remember the rules against flaming. As an outsider from another developed (1st world) country I'm perplexed about the current US government budget standoff. Going by what our various press says, the situation to me appears to be that one side of your politics has enacted into law a health care program that the rest of the developed world would regard as being only a small step towards what would be acceptable elsewhere; and the other side of politics is prepared to stop governmental processes and wreck the economy to stop it because to them it is a socialist attack on their freedom?
If that assessment is incorrect please politely tell me so?
From a distance to outsiders it appears that this world has underdeveloped countries (3d world), developing countries, developed countries (1st world), and the US which is rich and technologically advanced but quite out of step with the rest of the developed world in values and outlook. That may be a good thing, or not?
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by pokermind   » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:33 pm

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The usual state of affairs in the US Government is neither of the main parties controls both houses of the legislature and the executive branch of government and must thus compromise. The democrats for a two year period controlled all three and did not compromise, and thus passed what many on the other side see as the abomination. Court cases and various suggestions to delay implementation until the people speak their minds on this issue failed. Thus the surrender or stick to your guns situation where neither side can back down. Happens occasionally in US politics, even once resulting in a Civil War. This is the best explanation I can give. My guess is the conservatives will have to fold before the liberals although I wish they would stick to their guns. I hope things do not degenerate into violence both sides are calling the other treasonous.

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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by viciokie   » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:49 pm

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Like poker i feel the conservatives will eventually fold for a few explicit reasons.
1 all but one of the congress people are not returning their paychecks they will get during shutdown and this is showing those to be in a very bad light.
2. the program that feeds pregnant mothers and small children is also shut down and that is infuriating alot of people on all sides.
3. veterans who are receiving a disability check from the government are also facing time without those checks and that is really angering those vets and their family.

All in all most members of congress are catching flak from many people in their home areas and i expect to see things change soon.
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by KNick   » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:41 pm

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viciokie wrote:Like poker i feel the conservatives will eventually fold for a few explicit reasons.
1 all but one of the congress people are not returning their paychecks they will get during shutdown and this is showing those to be in a very bad light.
2. the program that feeds pregnant mothers and small children is also shut down and that is infuriating alot of people on all sides.
3. veterans who are receiving a disability check from the government are also facing time without those checks and that is really angering those vets and their family.

All in all most members of congress are catching flak from many people in their home areas and i expect to see things change soon.


I always thought you were the doom and gloom type, viciokie. Now I see you are a pie in the sky optimist. If they fold on this fight, it will be because they are so involved in the next one or the next one or.......

The thing that has me scratching my head is the fact that the original model for this health care law was written by a republican in a republican state, passed by a republican state house and a republican state senate, then signed by a republican governor and not very hotly contested by the democrats. What made them stop liking it besides the fact that now a democrat thinks it was a good idea and wants to use it?
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by viciokie   » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:08 pm

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KNick wrote:
The thing that has me scratching my head is the fact that the original model for this health care law was written by a republican in a republican state, passed by a republican state house and a republican state senate, then signed by a republican governor and not very hotly contested by the democrats. What made them stop liking it besides the fact that now a democrat thinks it was a good idea and wants to use it?


Oh i can be the doom and gloom type but most of the time i am not like that. I really do try to be the optimist but i think in this case the republicans really stepped off the deep end and most will realize that as the heat begins to cook them. I think the only reason they hate the healthcare law so much is the fact that obama proposed it and got it passed while they was mired in their birther crap. Plus i really think that the republican party will face a very severe backlash in the next general election as the memories of the general pop is reminded of who caused this mess from the various point of views.

Already the congressman in my state is nervous enough he is not holding any public face to face meeting but in the conference type call ins where dissenting calls can be disconnected. I have always detested cowards and the way the guy in my area is doing it makes me want to see him recalled.
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by KNick   » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:26 am

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viciokie wrote:
<<SNIP>>
Already the congressman in my state is nervous enough he is not holding any public face to face meeting but in the conference type call ins where dissenting calls can be disconnected. I have always detested cowards and the way the guy in my area is doing it makes me want to see him recalled.


I will say this for our Republican Representative. He kept his local offices open today and at least made an effort to talk to the press. So, either his people are working for free, or he is paying them out of his own pocket. However, the main thing is that all his local people are trying to be as helpful as possible to the people impacted by the cuts. Also, he tried to introduce a spending bill to keep some of the services up and running, but he claims it was shot down by the leadership. It looks like the claims/counterclaims are already starting as far as the rank and file go, because they realize they may have finally pissed off the American people to the point of retaliation. Can anyone say "Special Election"?
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by 7thsealord   » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:53 am

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KNick wrote:The thing that has me scratching my head is the fact that the original model for this health care law was written by a republican in a republican state, passed by a republican state house and a republican state senate, then signed by a republican governor and not very hotly contested by the democrats. What made them stop liking it besides the fact that now a democrat thinks it was a good idea and wants to use it?


As far as I can tell, people opposing this started throwing around the "S" word ("Socialism") in relation to it. Stuff like that always makes ultra-conservative heads spin around like Linda Blair. That it also means attacking the current President is probably icing on the cake for many, or so it seems.

Whatever happened to trying to run the country? Or, at the very least, furthering one's own interests whilst trying to run the country? Yes, I'm being rhetorical there.


A quote from Terry Pratchett's 'The Fifth Elephant' comes to mind:

"...We are all floating in the same boat. We may certainly try to push one another over the side, but only a maniac ... would make a hole in the bottom."
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by KNick   » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:52 am

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7thsealord wrote:<<SNIP>>
A quote from Terry Pratchett's 'The Fifth Elephant' comes to mind:

"...We are all floating in the same boat. We may certainly try to push one another over the side, but only a maniac ... would make a hole in the bottom."


And what makes you think that some of the politicians involved are not maniacs? They found that by drilling a small hole in the bottom of a big boat they could get every bodies attention. So they kept drilling lots of small holes, until suddenly there are enough holes in the bottom of the boat that enough water is coming in to sink it. Fifty to fourty years ago, they could plug the holes before too much water came in. Compromise would allow someone to still put at least a temporary patch on the situation. Now, all those old patches are coming undone and no one is trying to patch the new holes and the cracks that are forming between them. The hull of the boat has problems and needs some new planking. Unfortunately, nobody can agree on which planks need to be replaced or what to replace them with. And so the cracks between the holes continue to expand.
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by 7thsealord   » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:44 am

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KNick wrote:And what makes you think that some of the politicians involved are not maniacs?


I don't.
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Re: US Government shutdown
Post by Invictus   » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:58 am

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I know that this is an almost naive question, but has anyone in US congress actually been trying to reduce the debt? It seems that there is a lot of talk of "reducing deficit spending" and yet once more the debt limit needs to be raised. Is there any chance at all that they won't just keep borrowing until the wheels fall off?

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