What is the republic's policy towards Tories?

Charles83 wrote:RFC you already posted this snippet months ago in response to something else, I remember reading about “The Pikes of Kolstyr” quite some time ago, maybe before you started with the more formal snippets.

Well just to let you know.

While he posted most of the snippet months ago, the first two paragraphs are new and contain a lot of new information. It is amazing how a dozen or so lines can convey enough info to change scenarios, such as who is getting the first reinforcements.

ColonialBoy wrote:

KNick wrote:As I was reading McGuiness's last post, it struck me. How are the EoC or anyone else going to be able to ship thousands of prisoners anywhere? What are they going to do? Chain them up like slaves and cram them into a hold? The death toll would be incredible. Transport them 25 to 50 at a time? How many hulls are available to do this? What about the wounded? How many medical personnel are going to be willing to assist with this? Until some thought is given to the logistics of moving that many hostile soldiers, I don't see it happening. Even if the voyage is only a couple of days, there are an incredible number of problems to overcome.

KNick, you have overlooked the fact that Australia's 162K non-voluntary settlers arrived after a completing an ~14,000 mile, ~6-8 month sail from England. You can cram an awful lot of people on board an 18th Century-design sailing ship (especially if you don't REALLY care if they actually arrive [sorry for any modern sensitivities - the true objective was to empty English prisons - the convicts actually arriving healthy enough to build a new colony was a secondary objective])

I must awkwardly admit that that particular bit of history did slip my alleged mind. (Too many years since I studied any world history.) Still, didn't it take years to do? How many ships were used and how many were shipped per cruise? How many died on the way? What were they told would be waiting for them at the other end?

KNick wrote:
I must awkwardly admit that that particular bit of history did slip my alleged mind. (Too many years since I studied any world history.) Still, didn't it take years to do? How many ships were used and how many were shipped per cruise? How many died on the way? What were they told would be waiting for them at the other end?

A quick historical search suggests that 600 K were sent to the American colonies prior to the Rebellion and that subsequently 160k+ to Australia over a period of about 80 years.

Statistics from the "First Fleet" suggest approx 97% survival of all of Officers, Man Marines and their families as well as of the convicts.

chrisd wrote:

KNick wrote:
I must awkwardly admit that that particular bit of history did slip my alleged mind. (Too many years since I studied any world history.) Still, didn't it take years to do? How many ships were used and how many were shipped per cruise? How many died on the way? What were they told would be waiting for them at the other end?

A quick historical search suggests that 600 K were sent to the American colonies prior to the Rebellion and that subsequently 160k+ to Australia over a period of about 80 years.

Statistics from the "First Fleet" suggest approx 97% survival of all of Officers, Man Marines and their families as well as of the convicts.

This a a very quick reply (until I can spend some SERIOUS time doing some research )

I had already considered including the info you've now requested, KNick, but I just didn't have the time or reference mat'l available. I'll check and get back to you.

ChrisD, I'm pretty sure that the bulk of the transports were sent in considerably less than 80 years (for some reason the number "18" comes to mind). I'll have to track down the original records and get back to you & KNick.

runsforcelery wrote:

SPOILER ALERT

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Okay. The following partial snippet, which has had four words edited to file off the serial numbers of exactly where it goes, may have a little something to say to the point of tender Siddarmarkian sensibilities:

**************************************

The signal rocket arced heavenward, riding a ribbon of smoke, and exploded almost directly above the enemy lines.

Byrk Raimahn watched it burst, and the flower of flame was greeted by a deep, hungry baying. It snarled up from deep in the men’s bellies, and then the ICA’s bugles gave it wings. They sounded clear and sharp, the signal to advance falling in the cascade of their notes, and the 1st Glacierheart Volunteers’ Charisian-trained buglers took up the call in turn.

There were no bugles from the 37th Infantry. The RSA used drum calls, and their deep-throated thunder was an earthquake rumble under the high, insistent chorus of the buglers. Yet even though Siddarmark used drum signals, each regiment had its pipers, as well, and they too could be used to pass orders upon occasion. Like this one, Raimahn thought, as the notes of ‘The Pikes of Kolstyr’ rose in the fierce, skirling voice of the 37th’s war pipes.

<snip>

In peacetime, it was a somber reminder of the price of duty; in wartime, it was the march the war pipes played when the Republic of Siddarmark intended to take no prisoners. Siddarmark had never been especially atrocity prone, but neither had it been shy about reprisals in the face of someone else’s atrocities. The Desnairians had learned that lesson the hard way; the men of the 37th Infantry intended to teach it to its current foes, as well.

I sense that we may have a major difference of opinion between allies here. There are obviously ICA and RSA forces present, along with a militia force that's even more angry and vindictive than the 37th, who were slaughtered to almost the last man as they somehow slowed the AoG's initial advance down the Sylmahn Gap until Green Valley and the first wave of the ICA expeditionary force arrived and stopped the AoG dead - and then chased it all the way back up the gap.

The ICA forces here are probably from the 2nd expeditionary force, which was on its way to reinforce Eastshare. So we may be seeing Eastshare and Kaitswyrth's battle in the burned out scar, (although it doesn't sound like it) or this is somewhere else. The where isn't important to my point - the ICA officially takes prisoners, and the RSA and the militia have just declared that they won't!

So what happens after the battle when ICA healers start treating wounded enemy prisoners, and the 37th or the militia come by and stab every enemy soldier who's still breathing? Granted the ICA will cheerfully do that to every inquisitor they find, but they'll help the wounded and accept surrenders of enemy troops - and it appears they may have to fight off the Siddarmarkians to do it...

Yikes!

McGuiness wrote:I sense that we may have a major difference of opinion between allies here. There are obviously ICA and RSA forces present, along with a militia force that's even more angry and vindictive than the 37th, who were slaughtered to almost the last man as they somehow slowed the AoG's initial advance down the Sylmahn Gap until Green Valley and the first wave of the ICA expeditionary force arrived and stopped the AoG dead - and then chased it all the way back up the gap.

The ICA forces here are probably from the 2nd expeditionary force, which was on its way to reinforce Eastshare. So we may be seeing Eastshare and Kaitswyrth's battle in the burned out scar, (although it doesn't sound like it) or this is somewhere else. The where isn't important to my point - the ICA officially takes prisoners, and the RSA and the militia have just declared that they won't!

So what happens after the battle when ICA healers start treating wounded enemy prisoners, and the 37th or the militia come by and stab every enemy soldier who's still breathing? Granted the ICA will cheerfully do that to every inquisitor they find, but they'll help the wounded and accept surrenders of enemy troops - and it appears they may have to fight off the Siddarmarkians to do it...

Yikes!

For the most part, I agree with you on the advisability of taking prisoners. However, I think that the ICA unit that is there has been part of the fight for the Green Cove Trace and is as likely to take them as the RSA. As you noted, religious wars are the most brutal. They also bring on that brutality the fastest. It would not have taken long for ICA troops to "forget" to take prisoners. One member of the unit captured and given the Punishment of Schuler and then found by his comrades would do it.

runsforcelery wrote:The Desnairians had learned that lesson the hard way; the men of the 37th Infantry intended to teach it to its current foes, as well.

In the snippets previous incantation it was not blatantly clear they were going to be massacring Siddimarkian traitors. Compare this last line.

I think the civilians who were just trying to stay alive and keep their heads down don't have anything to fear. Any of the "faithful" especially the Traitor Regiments are dead. There is treason, high treason, and committing genocide against your own people.

runsforcelery wrote:

gantrakk wrote:I have been unfortunately half hoping that the siddermarkain republican side will be rather harsh and violent, probably won't be official policy but I have found that the "good guy" side has been way too well behaved and far too easily convinced not to strike out at those who are advocating their torture and murder.

This is also I think connected with my confusion of the times the Empire's side has threatened the mass murder of prisoners without ever doing so and yet the threat still works, I can't see how you can play so much the good guys and have such threats taken seriously.

SPOILER ALERT

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

[color=#800000][size=150]

Okay. The following partial snippet, which has had four words edited to file off the serial numbers of exactly where it goes, may have a little something to say to the point of tender Siddarmarkian sensibilities:


**************************************

The signal rocket arced heavenward, riding a ribbon of smoke, and exploded almost directly above the enemy lines.

Byrk Raimahn watched it burst, and the flower of flame was greeted by a deep, hungry baying. It snarled up from deep in the men’s bellies, and then the ICA’s bugles gave it wings. They sounded clear and sharp, the signal to advance falling in the cascade of their notes, and the 1st Glacierheart Volunteers’ Charisian-trained buglers took up the call in turn.

There were no bugles from the 37th Infantry. The RSA used drum calls, and their deep-throated thunder was an earthquake rumble under the high, insistent chorus of the buglers. Yet even though Siddarmark used drum signals, each regiment had its pipers, as well, and they too could be used to pass orders upon occasion. Like this one, Raimahn thought, as the notes of ‘The Pikes of Kolstyr’ rose in the fierce, skirling voice of the 37th’s war pipes.

“The Pikes of Kolstyr” dated from the first war between Desnair and the Republic, which had begun so disastrously for Siddarmark that the Desnairians had been certain the ultimate victory would be theirs. To encourage the Republic to acknowledge the inevitable, a Desnairian commander had accepted the surrender of the thousand-man garrison of the Siddarmarkian town of Kolstyr, four hundred miles inside Shiloh Province, on honorable terms. And when the garrison had marched out and stacked its weapons, he’d chosen one man in ten . . . and not killed him. Then he’d burned the town and sent the hundred survivors of its garrison back to their fellows minus their right hands as a pointed warning of what would happen to the Republic as a whole unless it abandoned the struggle.

Unfortunately for the Desnairian Empire, the Republic had taken a rather different lesson from his message, and “The Pikes of Kolstyr” was the result. In peacetime, it was a somber reminder of the price of duty; in wartime, it was the march the war pipes played when the Republic of Siddarmark intended to take no prisoners. Siddarmark had never been especially atrocity prone, but neither had it been shy about reprisals in the face of someone else’s atrocities. The Desnairians had learned that lesson the hard way; the men of the 37th Infantry intended to teach it to its current foes, as well.

In reading this snippet, it appears to refer to three and possibly four distinct military units on the "good guys" side.

The 37th Regiment, the 1st Glaicerheart volunteers, the "ICA bugles" (that could refer to the unit that Raimahn is now a part of or a regular ICA formation) and possibly both an ICA unit AND a unit constructed with Raimahn's forces that were first sent to Glacierheart as it's nucleus.

RFC's TOE gives the strength of a Siddarmark regiment as 2,250 "Pre Sword of Schueler". Does that mean that the 37th Regiment has been reconstructed using that figure or brought up to the ICA regimental strength of 4,314? I read the "1st Glaicerheart Volunteers" as referring to a new formation, trained by ICA cadre. If so is it using the pre Schueler strength number or the ICA?

Has Raimahn and his group been incorporated into the ICAEF or has his group of mostly ex pats kept a separate identity as Siddarmarkians and now constitute another regiment?

Any how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?

I believe that Raimahn is the leader of the 1st Glacierheart Volunteers. IIRC in MTaT it was stated that Sidemark was going to retain its current TO for the duration of the war, and just equip them with rifles.

Damonby wrote:In reading this snippet, it appears to refer to three and possibly four distinct military units on the "good guys" side.

The 37th Regiment, the 1st Glaicerheart volunteers, the "ICA bugles" (that could refer to the unit that Raimahn is now a part of or a regular ICA formation) and possibly both an ICA unit AND a unit constructed with Raimahn's forces that were first sent to Glacierheart as it's nucleus.

RFC's TOE gives the strength of a Siddarmark regiment as 2,250 "Pre Sword of Schueler". Does that mean that the 37th Regiment has been reconstructed using that figure or brought up to the ICA regimental strength of 4,314? I read the "1st Glaicerheart Volunteers" as referring to a new formation, trained by ICA cadre. If so is it using the pre Schueler strength number or the ICA?

Has Raimahn and his group been incorporated into the ICAEF or has his group of mostly ex pats kept a separate identity as Siddarmarkians and now constitute another regiment?

Any how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?

Hi Iranuke,

I believe its another RFC spoiler that mentions the RSA is keeping its pike regiment organization for the time being.

That may last only until winter gives them the time at least for some quick adjustments, since they know they have to make them, but the changes may be more subtle than any differences in numbers; dealing more with a much more distributed command structure, and who is in charge of how many, and what.

For example, a RSA pike company is almost the same size as a ICA artillery battalion, but somebody like the Senechal has to decide what units are converted to what.

We don't know what the SR's cannon production is, but having more than 9 times the population of Charis before the SoS ought to mean some considerable capacity with rising production; though much has probably been sabotaged, in disputed territory or under TL control, ie Shiloh province; much must still remain in SR lands particularly Old and New provinces, so we should see some RSA artillery in action soon, possibly before the fall ends.

The Glacierheart Volunteers may be ex-Charisians, welcomed back into the fold.

I have the impression that the transport waiting for the reconstituted 37th at the water front was steam powered or led by a steam tug, which might ~8 days to get to the Green Cove Trace.

If the RSA is advancing into Hildermoss province, I doubt they would do it only there.

It might be a diversion from BGV, making his flanking move to take the lake defenses from the rear, and seizing the intact locks between the lakes and Guarnak before they can be destroyed, allowing barge supplies all the way to Guarnak at least, before his engineers start repairing the destroyed locks from the GCR.

Eastshare too, having dispatched Kaitswyrth and his army, may be angling northward, or at least appearing to according to Go4 sources, in order to give BGV his shot.

Driving Wyrshym back to Five Forks where he might surrender before the end of fall would be another tremendous victory, besides the previously mentioned, not forgetting the south with Hanth, Fyguera, and the first ICA corps destroying the IDA's 'AoJ' after it arrives around the end of September to mid October.

L


[quote="iranuke"]I believe that Raimahn is the leader of the 1st Glacierheart Volunteers. IIRC in MTaT it was stated that Sidemark was going to retain its current TO for the duration of the war, and just equip them with rifles.


[quote="Damonby"]
In reading this snippet, it appears to refer to three and possibly four distinct military units on the "good guys" side.

The 37th Regiment, the 1st Glaicerheart volunteers, the "ICA bugles" (that could refer to the unit that Raimahn is now a part of or a regular ICA formation) and possibly both an ICA unit AND a unit constructed with Raimahn's forces that were first sent to Glacierheart as it's nucleus.

RFC's TOE gives the strength of a Siddarmark regiment as 2,250 "Pre Sword of Schueler". Does that mean that the 37th Regiment has been reconstructed using that figure or brought up to the ICA regimental strength of 4,314? I read the "1st Glaicerheart Volunteers" as referring to a new formation, trained by ICA cadre. If so is it using the pre Schueler strength number or the ICA?

Has Raimahn and his group been incorporated into the ICAEF or has his group of mostly ex pats kept a separate identity as Siddarmarkians and now constitute another regiment?

Any how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?[/quote][/quote]