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New Manty ship ideas.

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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by namelessfly   » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:33 pm

namelessfly

System raiding Battlecruiser with spinal mount Phaswd Array Graser giving an effective range of several AUs. You can't hit evasively maneuvering ships at long range, but orbital infrastructure doesn't maneuver. Drop out of hyper. Stay beyond the hyper limit while you spend several minutes blazing away at all of the system's orbital platforms and any parked starships that can't get their wedge up in time. Jump back into hyper and be gone before defenders can intercept.

Notice that this is a moderately radical adaptation of known technology. The SLN could conceivably have a black R&D program with perhaps a few prototypes.
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by Timeonit   » Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:19 pm

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Is it theoretically possible, for one ship to hack into the system of another ship?
I'm asking, because ships are often linked in one big network for defense and wondering if one couldn't use that to ones advantage by tapping into the enemy network and wrecking havock. Or subtly change intercept path of defense missiles etc. You'd probably need a specialized ship for that kind of task and a lot of computer/software specialists, but...
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:44 pm

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Lord Skimper wrote:How about making a modular ship that can be configured for any use upgrades or the like. A base ship based on the main frame designs that will accomplish any needed feat. It would have to have the SD-P armour and resistance, and then have different kinds of "modules" that can be attached.

Base SD frame with heavy armour SD-P modules.
Base SD frame with CLAC modules.
Base SD frame with QShip modules.
Base SD frame with BC modules.

Modules can be made to modularly fit the frame and do any number of tasks.

Could also have two different sizes of frame works or back bones.

A smaller one for DD's CL & HC (CH?). Plus civilian use.

Make civilian modules as well for cargo or people transporting. With QShip modules one might have 3 or four modules per ship, or more; and with 3 additional cargo modules in time of need one could refit quickly all the ships one needs when one needs them.

A common skeleton ship if you will. Heavily armoured cores much more so than any civilian ship, but allowing said civilian ship to be retrofitted in a short time a month perhaps or maybe a day to turn a small modular freighter into a modular Rowland.

Or a large cruise liner into a full SD-P.

Any large ship could transport any large or small module from anywhere to anywhere, as any small ship could move any small module.
Modules would have the nodes on them so a civil wedge could be upgraded to a military wedge just by changing a module.
First, on a hyper/wormhole capable ship the nodes have to be in a very specific spot for it's size. You can't just slap more powerful nodes anywhere and have them work. I guess you could make the impeller rooms / rings modular (although it'd be a very specialized module as the spacing is specific to the ring diameter which in turn is controlled by the exact size of the ship)

So you could make a given class of SD merchant accel by swapping in lower power nodes. But you probably couldn't reuse that node module on a DN, and certainly not on a BC.


But really the issues with this seem significantly larger to me than just the nodes. Structurally an SD(P) and a CLAC are radically different. The SD(P)s structure and systems placement is totally driven by the existence of the pod bay which displaces systems either forward or outwards. But a CLAC is driven by the very deep penetrations into it's hull for the LAC bays. (All the ship systems are in the interior 2/3rds of its width because the LAC bays have to take up around 1/3rd; given the length of the LACs)

You can't really modularly switch between them because a podbay 'module' would be half the length of the ship; so it pretty much has to be 'built in' to be structurally sound. But you can't really slap LAC bays outside a pod-bay because they impinge on the area needed for the ship systems which got displaced outwards by the podbay.
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by Timeonit   » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:36 pm

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How about making a modular ship that can be configured for any use upgrades or the like. A base ship based on the main frame designs that will accomplish any needed feat. It would have to have the SD-P armour and resistance, and then have different kinds of "modules" that can be attached.

Base SD frame with heavy armour SD-P modules.
Base SD frame with CLAC modules.
Base SD frame with QShip modules.
Base SD frame with BC modules.


Like Jonathan_S said it would be difficult to switch between the different modules because of the structural differences. (Not only pod-bays or LAC bays, but also storage room for ammunition etc.)
The QShip module would not work with an SD base frame, because the whole idea of a QShip is not to look like a warship, but like a merchant vessel. You could to a certain degree cover this up, but it would be nearly impossible to hide all changes, if the ship isn't built for it from the beginning (different frame and military nodes).
Another difficulty would be the crew, for you would need a new/different crew (structure)for each module.
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by namelessfly   » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:50 pm

namelessfly

Timeonit wrote:Is it theoretically possible, for one ship to hack into the system of another ship?
I'm asking, because ships are often linked in one big network for defense and wondering if one couldn't use that to ones advantage by tapping into the enemy network and wrecking havock. Or subtly change intercept path of defense missiles etc. You'd probably need a specialized ship for that kind of task and a lot of computer/software specialists, but...



As k Horace Harkness and Shannon Foraker.

"oooppsss!"
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by Theemile   » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:36 pm

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kzt wrote:
Relax wrote:
Erm, No. Mistaking your Nesbits. The cousin is the MA agent.

The MA is running a family based conspiracy last I knew.

Ever think the conspiracy could be on the Mother's side of the family? So only one Nesbit necessarily has to be a Star line.

Also it was said that not every offspring was brought in on the conspiracy. If the cousin ( or his parents) were deemed unreliable, they would be just cut off, with no knowledge of what they were missing.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by crewdude48   » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:43 am

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Theemile wrote:
kzt wrote:The MA is running a family based conspiracy last I knew.

Ever think the conspiracy could be on the Mother's side of the family? So only one Nesbit necessarily has to be a Star line.

Also it was said that not every offspring was brought in on the conspiracy. If the cousin ( or his parents) were deemed unreliable, they would be just cut off, with no knowledge of what they were missing.


I'm sure that the MA has no qualms with paying a normal to betray his nation. And really what are the odds of a star line surviving in power (or at all) up to this point in the game. They would put their star line in a position of power. Who was killed in the CPS days? Familys that were in power, all of them. Any sleeper star lines would have been activated at that point to fill in the gaping new hole in coverage. Then they had to survive the Leveller Rebellion, then remain in power after the Republic was restored. I suspect that any generational plants that the MAlign dropped in Haven have been exhausted.
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by Garth 2   » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:50 am

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Currently the Manti ship designs, below the wall are the best available given the technology.

Destroyers - Rolands
Heavy Cruiser - Sag. C
Battlecruisers - Nike

None of these designs are going to go out of date any time soon, all they need is the enhancement to their hyperdrives/sails (streak drive) and any software/hardware updates (e.g. new counter missile handling systems, pdc etc.)

However the next generation of SD(P) that's going to be interesting. There been some discussion about different pod deployment mechanisms and moving away from a single large hatch.

In fact, if it wasn't for the loss of life, the Alignment has done the Manties a huge favour by forcing them to rebuild the shipyards with all the latest upgrades (one of the few things that probably wasn't done in a major way during the war, after all we all know that they 'grew organically' without any real planning) and start the SD(P) design and build with a completely clean slate.

As for Nesbitt its unlikely he's within the onion, I thinks he just an independent agent recruited by the MA via Manpower (or one of the other fronts) during the Committee of Public Safety period.
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by Theemile   » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:03 am

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crewdude48 wrote:
I'm sure that the MA has no qualms with paying a normal to betray his nation. And really what are the odds of a star line surviving in power (or at all) up to this point in the game. They would put their star line in a position of power. Who was killed in the CPS days? Familys that were in power, all of them. Any sleeper star lines would have been activated at that point to fill in the gaping new hole in coverage. Then they had to survive the Leveller Rebellion, then remain in power after the Republic was restored. I suspect that any generational plants that the MAlign dropped in Haven have been exhausted.


I would have to agree, most of the plants pre-1900 would be legislaturists - who have had their population pruned by 99.9%. It is possible they did have some powerful doleist plants, or had lines from the smaller conquests move to haven, or someone new inserted, but they probably have very little penetration inside the RoH outside of good old fashioned bribery.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by drothgery   » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:33 pm

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Garth 2 wrote:Currently the Manti ship designs, below the wall are the best available given the technology.

Destroyers - Rolands
Heavy Cruiser - Sag. C
Battlecruisers - Nike

None of these designs are going to go out of date any time soon, all they need is the enhancement to their hyperdrives/sails (streak drive) and any software/hardware updates (e.g. new counter missile handling systems, pdc etc.)
Rolands (and anything in the traditional destroyer or even light cruiser tonnage range) are obsolete as soon as anyone other than the RMN has extended-range missiles widely deployed below the wall; they're not really viable in an environment where they don't have an overwhelming range advantage because their defenses are relatively poor.

And the Sag-C is still a transitional design, too; when the RMN starts building RFC's 300KTon 'notional destroyers', a 500Kton CA is very much on the small side as it's only going to be marginally more powerful (also, the Roland and Sag-C suffered the most from the negative consequences of the RMN/GSN drive to extreme automation in the intrawar and early 2nd war era; any successor designs are likely to include larger Marine contingents at a minimum). Nikes are another matter; I can see that design or a close cousin as the Grand Alliance's first-line BC for the foreseeable future.
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