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Wencit Spoiler Guess

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Re: Wencit Spoiler Guess
Post by SYED   » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:21 am

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If they are attempting to work on one of the three artifact of the throne, would it not make sense to be working on all of them? Success with any one of them, might lead with further success with the others, even if the abilities are not as aplicable as desired. So the crown and harp might be in norfressa hands potentially.
The crown reads minds which is always usful, but also detects black magic. While not as important to the wizard lords, it would make them better able to track their minions. Do we know if it as any other abilities?
If the crown was part of the reason why wizardry was kept in check for so long, could the other artifacts have been made for similar purposes? To maintain the strictures, and keep down black magic. THey might have been aimed at countering the dark gods themselves, so able to track, detect and deal when their power is used or placed into the mortal realm

Wencit was the last lord of htat island, RUn. What to bet he has over time made sure he owns it full via magic? Then who stand to inherit it after he dies?
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Re: Wencit Spoiler Guess
Post by AClone   » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:09 pm

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SYED wrote: Wencit was the last lord of htat island, RUn. What to bet he has over time made sure he owns it full via magic? Then who stand to inherit it after he dies?

I don't recall seeing a map of the southern continent. However, I'd guess that the island of Rum was overrun by dark wizards long ago--since it was the home of the Council.

I could be wrong, though.
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Re: Wencit Spoiler Guess
Post by PlaysWithBees   » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:31 am

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OK, I have a couple thoughts on this.

First, I do not believe that Wencit is a time traveler. I seem to recall a quote in one of the books maybe from Wencet or from Tomanãc.

It stated, in effect, but not even a God would mess with time. If they did it would be a disaster.
I suspect his foreknowledge comes from another source.

Another interesting tidbit is regarding a Karselhain. I believe it was Varnaythus who was speculating about the Strafing of Kontavor. He states that the bedrock of the entire continent is essentially a Karselhain of Wencet's.

What if it wasn't just Kontivor that was wired for sound and demolition but also Norfresa, starting with the aid of the White Council and then finished be Wencet's during the first few centuries following the destruction when the Carnidosians were still licking their wounds and wondering what hit them. That would give him effectively 24 hour monitoring of the whole continent allowing him to know what is wear and be able to sneak past wards anywhere on the continent.
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Re: Wencit Spoiler Guess
Post by SYED   » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:57 pm

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The council unleashed their combined might from wencit's island according to the snippets. So when the old empire fell, aparently the island was too protected to take so held out during the whole war.
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Re: Wencit Spoiler Guess
Post by Morris Darkstar   » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:36 am

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One other thing, if time travel and parallel universes figure in the final outcome of this series, pulling in a dragon to introduce 'a' set of timestreams (and wencit clearly says that even dragons see a subset of what the gods see).

Oh, one other bit of conjecture. I've wondered before if the living avatar of Shigu wasn't another hint. Could wencit be effectively not human, and actually be an avatar of Semkirk? I can't remember wencit ever talking or referring to Semkirk which has seemed a strange omission on his part. However if he effectively IS Semkirk -- who was mentioned as the first god of Light who started trying to mend Orr and the shattered universes.....
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Re: Wencit Spoiler Guess
Post by kaid   » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:46 pm

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My guess is wencit is the son of gwynna and kenhodan. I doubt they would keep bringing up time travel as being possible if it was not important. It would also explain why how he knew exactly what path he had to take and why he was so careful about telling anybody anything. Time travelers paradox if he does not walk the tight rope and do things exactly as he had already done them then the future he was from ceases to exist.

It also gives a good reason why wencit said if any magical attack was focused at leena he would immediately start strafing kontovar again.

Then again who knows just look at gwynna she clearly has a very clear understanding of a lot of what is coming and how much of that was from the backwash from wencit helping her and her seeing into him and how much of that was her own knowledge awakening.
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Re: Wencit Spoiler Guess
Post by Morris Darkstar   » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:17 pm

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Another thing we haven't seen any data on is: can a wizard send an item back in time? I could see some of the time paradoxes handled by Wencit sending to a regular location exact instructions to himself as to how to handle an upcoming crisis. He sends the note / item / whatever from a future where he has just succeeded in doing what is needed, and then just has to follow his own directions. And if he ends up in a failed state, sends back a note saying: "nope, doing xyz didn't work, try something else."

Morris
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Re: Wencit Spoiler Guess
Post by DDHvi   » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:23 pm

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A thought which this thread kicked off. :idea: Anyone with knowledge across time would need to be careful. Now, in Daniel, chapter 11, there is a discussion of the kings of the south and the kings of the north that is so accurate that people who don't want to believe God insist Daniel MUST have been written after the wars of the Greek successors. Also, mention is made of king Cyrus by name elsewhere. I'd need to research it, but it seems to me that accurate prophecy, by its own nature, has to be such that those receiving the prophecy don't have the ability (or perhaps understanding needed) to change the results.

Note that talking to Abraham, God said "If you do", while repeating the same promises to Isaac and Jacob, there was no if involved. Presumably, by that time, the cusp point had been passed.

This should apply to Wencit also. BTW, remember RFC doesn't always explain the why of things, even after the book involved is published. :roll: And no human gets everything right.

Which doesn't detract from the fun of speculating :!:
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Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
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Re: Wencit Spoiler Guess
Post by Jonathan_S   » Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:53 pm

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Morris Darkstar wrote:Another thing we haven't seen any data on is: can a wizard send an item back in time? I could see some of the time paradoxes handled by Wencit sending to a regular location exact instructions to himself as to how to handle an upcoming crisis. He sends the note / item / whatever from a future where he has just succeeded in doing what is needed, and then just has to follow his own directions. And if he ends up in a failed state, sends back a note saying: "nope, doing xyz didn't work, try something else."

Morris
That only works if the future Wencit is shielded from, but can still observe, to timeline changes caused by manipulation of the past.

If there's a single timeline and past-Wencit alters for the worse the future-Wencit only knows it's not good; he never knows it was better before the temporal meddling. But if there are any worlds and each (major) choice causes a split then the future-Wencit that sends the warning won't be in the new timeline created by past-Wencit making a different choice.


The only way I could see this even kind-of working is in a multi-world scenario when it's possible to sent messages back, from each timeline resulting from a possible choice, to before that choice is made. If Wencit always sent a status report back with the choice and result then past-Wencit gets all the outcomes and can chose which seems best. But I really doubt it works that way.

Even with improbably perfect hindsight to recognize every choice point, once past it, the possibilities multiply too quickly to possibly keep track of; to maintain sanity you'd be limited to looking only a couple.choices ahead - risking getting into a local maximum that has all bad choices once you get into it.
Although I guess this scheme, if possible, would automatically select against choices that caused Wencit's death. As long as he's selecting from choices/result pairs he sent back from the future he's picking futures where at minimum he survived to report back.


But I can't believe that this could be done over the thousand plus years he's been laying plans and setting ancient preparations in place. Something else has to account for that. The trillions of thread from the timestorm that would explode off from the choices over that span seem to much for any human, or even a Dragon, to begin to comprehend.
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Re: Wencit Spoiler Guess
Post by Morris Darkstar   » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:49 am

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Yep. Back to my speculation in another thread that Wencit could be an avatar of Simkirk.

lol, just went and looked at the appendix again to find the exact spelling of Semkirk Orfro and it notes that he's known as "The Watcher."

Or maybe it's a bit simpler and Wencit is simply a champion of Simkirk who Phrobus said in a prologue was the first God of light to start meddling and trying to restore Orr's might and the timestream.

Morris

Jonathan_S wrote:But I can't believe that this could be done over the thousand plus years he's been laying plans and setting ancient preparations in place. Something else has to account for that. The trillions of thread from the timestorm that would explode off from the choices over that span seem to much for any human, or even a Dragon, to begin to comprehend.
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