SotS Official Snippet #4

fallsfromtrees wrote:Certainly all interesting questions, and hopefully to be answered in the next few snippets. It would indeed be surprising if Bahzell did not have a relationship with the Belhadan chapter, unless he has totally forsworn his oath to Tomanak - and that ain't happening.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the young-hero-without-memory walked into Bahzell's bar just at the right time? I wouldn't be surprised if Tomanak hadn't told Bahzell not just to open the bar, but exactly where to locate it.

(For that matter, it probably required the vouching-for by the Chapter to get the sort of social acceptance implied by the range of clientele of the bar; I doubt that the Ballad by itself would serve. Well, OK, we know that the local Mages would also back him up...)

I'm still hoping to get a read about Leeana in training to fight in armor from courserback...

jsburbidge wrote:
Do you think it's a coincidence that the young-hero-without-memory walked into Bahzell's bar just at the right time? I wouldn't be surprised if Tomanak hadn't told Bahzell not just to open the bar, but exactly where to locate it.

I don't think so, because Tomanak itself had said at different occasions, that he needs champions, not slaves. Telling Bahzell that he has to open an inn and where exactly he has to do it on the other hand would directly contradict Tomanaks habit. If at all, than he only gives him a hint or two who leads in the desired direction, but definitely not more.

while true, this isn't at all the usual situation. in fact, it's a lot more complex in enough ways that 'hints' won't get the job done: not only have Bahzell and Leanna pulled off the Wind Plain, they've left Hurgrum as well. the first part was probably almost a no-brainer, the second is very non-obvious. there will have been a lot of consultation involved in them ending up where they did, and it's very likely that some of it involved Tomanak and his sister directly.

Eagleeye wrote:

jsburbidge wrote:
Do you think it's a coincidence that the young-hero-without-memory walked into Bahzell's bar just at the right time? I wouldn't be surprised if Tomanak hadn't told Bahzell not just to open the bar, but exactly where to locate it.

I don't think so, because Tomanak itself had said at different occasions, that he needs champions, not slaves. Telling Bahzell that he has to open an inn and where exactly he has to do it on the other hand would directly contradict Tomanaks habit. If at all, than he only gives him a hint or two who leads in the desired direction, but definitely not more.

It is obvious that the gods (and Wencit) believe that the marriage of Bahzell and Leanna is important.

So while Tomanak likely didn't order Bahzell to start the Inn, it is likely that Bahzell & Leanna had permission and/or got suggestions about their present course of actions.

Louis R wrote:while true, this isn't at all the usual situation. in fact, it's a lot more complex in enough ways that 'hints' won't get the job done: not only have Bahzell and Leanna pulled off the Wind Plain, they've left Hurgrum as well. the first part was probably almost a no-brainer, the second is very non-obvious. there will have been a lot of consultation involved in them ending up where they did, and it's very likely that some of it involved Tomanak and his sister directly.

jsburbidge wrote:
Do you think it's a coincidence that the young-hero-without-memory walked into Bahzell's bar just at the right time? I wouldn't be surprised if Tomanak hadn't told Bahzell not just to open the bar, but exactly where to locate it.

Eagleeye wrote:
I don't think so, because Tomanak itself had said at different occasions, that he needs champions, not slaves. Telling Bahzell that he has to open an inn and where exactly he has to do it on the other hand would directly contradict Tomanaks habit. If at all, than he only gives him a hint or two who leads in the desired direction, but definitely not more.

Louis R wrote:while true, this isn't at all the usual situation. in fact, it's a lot more complex in enough ways that 'hints' won't get the job done: not only have Bahzell and Leanna pulled off the Wind Plain, they've left Hurgrum as well. the first part was probably almost a no-brainer, the second is very non-obvious. there will have been a lot of consultation involved in them ending up where they did, and it's very likely that some of it involved Tomanak and his sister directly.

I agree with Eagleeye here. Directly ordering Bahzell to open a bar in Belhadan would violate his ethics on his relationship with his champions - regardless of how important it is, directly ordering him to do so would constitute a "The ends justify the means" attitude, which makes him little better that the Gods of the Dark he is battling.

fallsfromtrees wrote:I agree with Eagleeye here. Directly ordering Bahzell to open a bar in Belhadan would violate his ethics on his relationship with his champions - regardless of how important it is, directly ordering him to do so would constitute a "The ends justify the means" attitude, which makes him little better that the Gods of the Dark he is battling.

However, there's absolutely nothing in Tokamak's relationship with Bahzell (or Leanna!), which one might note is more familial than feudatory at this point, that would prevent a discussion of "what should we do next?". (And indeed Bahzell is in the habit of arguing with Tokamak over the tactical aspect of plans.)

Leanna compares the stranger's spectacular torso scars to Bahzell, but Bahzell hasn't been severely scarred in the books; Bahzell's the guy healing others at the end. We don't know if Bahzell's still an active combatant; still got all his limbs, but that doesn't mean "in shape to keep fighting". Healing isn't perfect as portrayed.

The flip side of that is Champions fight for their god. If Bahzell is ...whatever the opposite of rusticating, civilating? in Belhadan, it kinda has to be a formal period of leave from regular duties of a champion or it is itself part of those duties.

Remember the mage telling Bahzell about the 'stink' of wizardry in the city? Well, here we are with Wencit, too right in the middle of it, and for a number of years, apparently...

dan92677 wrote:Remember the mage telling Bahzell about the 'stink' of wizardry in the city? Well, here we are with Wencit, too right in the middle of it, and for a number of years, apparently...

I think that was Bortalik (the Purple Lord capital), while Belhadan is the Axeman city Bahzell goes to at the beginning of The War God's Own. There is a major mage academy in Belhadan (the head of which meets Bahzell on his way to the Order of Tomanak), so probably not much of an issue with wizards (well, now there is - Wencit showed up).

akira.taylor wrote:

dan92677 wrote:Remember the mage telling Bahzell about the 'stink' of wizardry in the city? Well, here we are with Wencit, too right in the middle of it, and for a number of years, apparently...

I think that was Bortalik (the Purple Lord capital), while Belhadan is the Axeman city Bahzell goes to at the beginning of The War God's Own. There is a major mage academy in Belhadan (the head of which meets Bahzell on his way to the Order of Tomanak), so probably not much of an issue with wizards (well, now there is - Wencit showed up).

Yep.