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by imperatorzor
» Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:25 am
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imperatorzor
Posts: 47
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The Charisian Empire can produce a lot of Steel Thistle silk for it's sails and ropes, which is good for it as said fibers has a lot of tensile strength. However, I was thinking of another application of these qualities...
Basically you make a vest with a large pouch out of Steel Thistle cloth. Into which you put in some steel plates and a layer of steel thistle padding behind it. Basically you would end up with something like this...  ...but due to the fact that it's made of steel thistle silk it would be much more durable. Zor |
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by Dauntless
» Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:54 pm
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Dauntless
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seems like a good idea i will let someone who knows say how practical/doable it is.
I would just say that i think sails for the time being have priority on available stockpiles |
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by Weird Harold
» Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:43 pm
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Weird Harold
Posts: 4478
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A lot of the winter gear used by BGVs troops was made of Steel Thistle silk. I don't think there's much of a bottle-neck there. It is still expensive, but so is Kevlar in the RW. The bottle-neck for the cited example is more likely to be the steel plate. Perhaps a Ceramic and Kevlar design (a la "Dragonskin" as an example would better fit Charis' available resources? .
. . Answers! I got lots of answers! (Now if I could just find the right questions.) |
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by BobG
» Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:02 pm
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BobG
Posts: 288
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I think that if they can figure out how to make the kind of epoxy that is used to make fiberglass, they can probably make lightweight helmets of steel thistle silk that will be effective, especially against shrapnel. I would also think that enough layers of steel thistle silk would turn the lower-velocity black powder shots. I'm not sure the additional weight of steel sheets think enough would be viable, except maybe in the specific case of dug-in troops. Also, steel thistle silk and epoxy would make a really nice hull material for sail-powered vessels. And effectively no splinters. I (and others) built a cedar strip canoe with fiberglass and epoxy once, and it was fairly easy (Wooden Boat School, Brooklyn, ME). And a lot of fun. -- Bob G -- Bob G SF & Fantasy: The only things better than Chocolate.
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by 3353AndyRyan3353
» Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:17 am
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3353AndyRyan3353
Posts: 11
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Just so I have this straight are you talking about fibre glass hulled boats?
Also does charis even have the ability to produce the type of ceramic required for body armour? |
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by doug941
» Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:53 am
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doug941
Posts: 228
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Many people are familiar with Kevlar but there is another form of armor that is (somewhat) textile based. The fiber Spectra is lined up in parallel sheets then coated with resin. By slightly off angling the layers, you get puncture resistant panels. If a Safehold analog to that resin can be found, you will have your armor. And a plus side is that it is still somewhat flexible.
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by Silverwall
» Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:39 am
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Silverwall
Posts: 388
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Body armour without plates is worthless against bullets in a full power rifle environment.
Unless they can manufacture the ceramic or steel plates such a device as the ones pictured there is no better than a basic flak jacket to stop shrapnel and the like. The weight penalty along with heat issues and flexibility make them iffy propositions, especially when they have to be carried on the march without motorised vehicles. Current designs seem to range between 15 and 25 lbs which is a heafty extra weight to add to an infantryman who has to walk everywhere. |
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by WeberFan
» Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:02 am
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WeberFan
Posts: 374
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Truth in advertising - I'm by no means an expert in the area, but I've WORN body armor and a helmet a fair amount.
My impression is that the threats are relatively low velocity projectiles (arbalest and black-powder rifle bullets), and shrapnel (from field pieces) that could be a bit higher velocity. I KNOW we've had these discussions before on this board - and IIRC, we've had a lot of good back and forth. Technology-wise, my sense is that in a lot of ways Safehold is somewhere between the first and second world wars. Except that they are reliant on black powder where there were more energetic explosives available in WWI and WWII. Yes (before someone points this out) Charis is working on more advanced explosives (Brown Powder being the first in what will be a long line of explosives), but the Temple forces are only at a black powder level currently. Body armor cannot prevent all injuries, but it can prevent MANY of them, and for many of those that it cannot prevent, it can reduce the injury severity. While I like this post for the idea, I think we're speculating too far ahead, too soon. The Steel Thistle Silk armor, with "dragon skin" plates, is (IMHO) a great idea - but we don't need to even think about composites, fibers, and resins just yet. Similarly, basic steel pot helmets are enough to "get the job done." Doesn't need to be perfect, just needs to work. Yes (speaking again from personal experience here) weight is a factor. But again, my sense is that the troops don't NEED to wear their body armor all the time. Most of the time they're moving around, it's lower-risk "movement to contact" - marching from one place to another, where you can just transport the armor on wagons. Then when you fix the enemy's position, you stop, don your armor for the assault, and off you go. The other scenario in my head is the fixed defense scenario. In that case, I have no doubt that the troops would be "living in their body armor" but would still be OK, because they're not marching long distances carrying the extra weight. |
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by AirTech
» Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:09 am
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AirTech
Posts: 476
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Like the current US military issue? BTW the US Army found out during the Korean war that 2" of cotton batting will stop a .308 rifle bullet at 100 yards - how, the Chinese used 2" of cotton batting in their winter parka's.... A half inch round packs a lot of kinetic energy, so some form of trauma plate would be required, lightweight ceramic may be an option. (It's basically a shotgun deer slug in ballistics for a modern comparison). BTW cellulose is stronger than Kevlar - but has more defects and generally shorter fibers (unless you use hemp). Kevlar also loses 70% of its strength when wet.(Due to residual acid from its production). Fiber reinforced panels would also be an option (Thermoset resins are a distinct possibility (Bakelite anyone?)). You could paint them white and make matching helmets (or go black with matching cape and deep breathing)(Cue Star Wars Theme...) |
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by John Prigent
» Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:34 pm
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John Prigent
Posts: 592
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I understand that the Roman Legions made day-long marches in full armour for days on end to get into action, while also carrying their personal gear,shields and weapons. How much did a Legionary's armour, shield, weapons and kit weigh? And yes, I do understand that they didn't carry spare ammo for their swords(but three pila not just one). I know several people who have marched the length of Hadrian's Wall in full armour and found it hard to do even without carrying any extra stuff.
Cheers John
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