Honest Opinion (May Contain Spoilers)

Hello I just finished my copy of HFQ, I was very unimpressed with the book, the book is enjoyable, but it feels slow, the story is getting boggled down in thousand of minor details and minor battles and the main plot is moving at a very slow pace, Its the first time that I find I can resume the entire book to 4 sentences, usually RFC books are harder to describe because you have multiple threads and the plot is moving forward along multiple lines with twists and turns, this last book is missing all that, if someone presented this book to me without telling me the author i would have never believed that this was a David Weber's book.

I feel cheated, waiting 2 years for such an unimpressive book, I finished reading it, and the worst part while the other books gave me the excitement and reasons to read them for a second time, to see what details i had missed and how the situation develop, this book didn't spark any interest in rereading it, the only other book from david weber's that didn't spark any excitement for me to read it again has been so far dahak 3, Well I'm putting this here so that the author may know what I think, I don't know if he will read it, and I do not know if he will write anything different even if I give my opinion, but hey as a loyal RFC fan I feel a duty to at least be honest and tell him that in my personal opinion the book didn't measure up.

Hope next book is better, and that we don't need to wait another 2 years for it.

I actually really enjoyed this book, and did not like LAMA all that much for the reasons you posted.

It is my impression that DW has different ways of storytelling.

To me it seems that the whole Safehold series is written in a way quite different from DW's early single novels or the early Honorverse novels.

The early novels were more 'classically' structured insofar as they had one primary plot strand and one - or very few - primary characters from whose viewpoint that story was followed.

The Safehold series on the other hand seems focused on giving the reader the 'whole picture' - telling not a character's 'story' but a whole planet's 'history' if you will.

To achieve this DW does not follow a single, classical plotline from one (or very few) points of view but a multitude of viewpoint characters. And the main criteria for selecting these viewpoint characters is not so much whether a character is fascinating or gripping on her own (though some are) but rather whether she has an important part of the total Safeholdian history to tell.

And since the telling of the whole 'history' is important to DW he has no qualms to resort to the famous or infamous 'info-dumps' when he feels a military, political or technical detail is important for understanding the whole - quite complex - 'alternate' Safeholdian history that he is telling us.

For me personally the problem (with DW's newer 'history' kind of storytelling) diminished once I realized that my feeling was caused by my expectations (expecting classical storytelling like in the earlier books) clashing with a changed way of storytelling. Once I look at DW's Safeholdian (and later Honorverse) way of writing on its on - without preconceptions as to how it 'should' be - I found it much easier to cherish it. There are sides to it that are amazing and that no other author that I know of could write so expertly.

I admit I personally am missing the way the earlier works gripped me and sucked me in. DW had applied the classical structure masterfully (as long as he used it) and the suspense and emotions he created by using it were incredible.

But he changed the way he is writing and we are in another phase now. Safehold is cool and quite incredible on its own. But in a different way. Now the story is like a piece of architecture - statically sound with all the technical details fitting and you can look at the house from all side and understand how it is built.
My advice is: Cherish the series for its strengths and do not mourn what was lost to achieve those strengths.

I, too have felt the story is dragging out. What I don't know though, is will it feel that way when the big story is all done and published. Siddermark was attacked in November, 895 in the book published Sept. 2011. Here it is now October, 2015 and we have only gotten to October, 897 in the book.

So, four years of waiting and talking and thinking in real life to get through two years of Safehold life. For myself, I have enjoyed the stray story lines in Honorverse much more now that the are all coming together. It is making a great story and I'm pretty sure this will happen with the Safehold Series. That when it takes only a week to read about the whole Mainland war, it will be well paced and a good read.

I love the series. I'm enjoying it immensely. None of my above should be taken as serious criticism. I think Bruno is right, it is a different type of storytelling, but it is a great story! Thought provoking in places, funny, touching, sad, all in prose that carries you right along.

Thank you for your work, for telling this tale!

Charles83 wrote:Hello I just finished my copy of HFQ, I was very unimpressed with the book, the book is enjoyable, but it feels slow, the story is getting boggled down in thousand of minor details and minor battles and the main plot is moving at a very slow pace, Its the first time that I find I can resume the entire book to 4 sentences, usually RFC books are harder to describe because you have multiple threads and the plot is moving forward along multiple lines with twists and turns, this last book is missing all that, if someone presented this book to me without telling me the author i would have never believed that this was a David Weber's book.

I feel cheated, waiting 2 years for such an unimpressive book, I finished reading it, and the worst part while the other books gave me the excitement and reasons to read them for a second time, to see what details i had missed and how the situation develop, this book didn't spark any interest in rereading it, the only other book from david weber's that didn't spark any excitement for me to read it again has been so far dahak 3, Well I'm putting this here so that the author may know what I think, I don't know if he will read it, and I do not know if he will write anything different even if I give my opinion, but hey as a loyal RFC fan I feel a duty to at least be honest and tell him that in my personal opinion the book didn't measure up.

Hope next book is better, and that we don't need to wait another 2 years for it.

SPOILERS..........


SPOILERS..........


SPOILERS..........



I have to confess to similar feelings. While I much enjoyed the portions in Zion where things seem to be coming a trifle unglued for the Gang of 4 and the Camp liberation sequences were touching, the battle sequences seemed abbreviated and the fact that lately the ICN seems to be losing Navel battles with no corresponding wins seems unnatural. AT the same time they seem to win every land battle with no reverses. We saw three entire fronts North, Center and South reduced basically to a hand wave of Artillery fire and a walkover for the ICA trampling their opponents. "Odd", said Mabel, "very odd."

Further the entire Seijen Khody sequence seems to have led pretty much nowhere. Oh a touch of nice background but... Unless it leads Merlin to stumble across the means of taking out the OBS in the next book, it feels pointless. I also get a real feeling that with the increasing firepower on the temple side we could be looking at a WWII vs. WWI style battle in the next round.

Probably a good time to develop tanks and spotting balloons for the ICA. Given the huge part artillery looks to be playing from now on.

I'm more worried that the next book might be all about the plot against the Empire back in Chisholm and internal matters, and a series of depressing battles that throw the ICA and Siddermark back against the mountains or are fought to a standstill in the midplains of Hildermoss, New Northlands and WestMarch provinces. Near parity in technology with the other guy outnumbering you is not a winning combo on a battlefield.

I suppose we will now have to wait and see.

I do have one recommendation though. Fewer snippets. I think we were all anticipating a lot more in the last part of the book and much of the more detailed battle was actually in the part we had snippet-ed in advance. Either backload more action and excitement in the back half of the book or snippet less of the book. I'll still buy the hard copy as well as the Kindle version, because I want David to make money and write more, but it was a little disappointing. Felt like too much, being rushed through too quickly in order to get it done and to a certain point.

And yea, as someone else wondered, I also wondered Why didn't Merlin/Nimue use a SNARC remote to set off the powder magazine on Dreadnaught. Damned transparent way to give the Dohlorian Navy an ironclad so that you have to have the King H's before you can take them on if you ask me.

Anyway that's my initial reaction.

Larry

Similar thoughts as Charles83. I'm wondering if we're going to get into something more like the 1632 space with David "co-authoring" the following books. David's got a lot to do and he ain't 50 with a good ticker.

I liked the book. Initial reactions:

My only disappointment was in not seeing the Haarahlds in action.

Otherwise at random, I thought having Trumyn Stohner be the general to complete the destruction of Wyrshym's army and receive his surrender was fitting, a very nice touch.

Clyntahn is clearly deteriorating as things continue to go south for the Jihad. His judgement and ability to make considered decisions, never good, worsens.

Great to have Sir Dunkyn and Earl Coris in the inner circle.

As for the pace of the plotline, I find the tradeoff between something like Safehold with its multiple plot lines and info dumps and something a bit more fast paced just that, a trade off. I enjoy both.

Don

Larry wrote:I have to confess to similar feelings. While I much enjoyed the portions in Zion where things seem to be coming a trifle unglued for the Gang of 4 and the Camp liberation sequences were touching, the battle sequences seemed abbreviated and the fact that lately the ICN seems to be losing Navel battles with no corresponding wins seems unnatural. AT the same time they seem to win every land battle with no reverses. We saw three entire fronts North, Center and South reduced basically to a hand wave of Artillery fire and a walkover for the ICA trampling their opponents. "Odd", said Mabel, "very odd."

Gotta agree. Most of the mainland battle stuff wasn't all that interesting, especially the latter parts.

Charis did have naval victories, but they were all "offscreen" with short, after the fact descriptions of what happened. Which IMO is what the majority of the land battles should have been.

Frankly, if HFQ had been written like the early Honor Harrington books, it would have concentrated mostly on Dohlar and the events surrounding the Battle of the Kaudzhu Narrows. THAT for me was the most interesting story in the book that weren't short character peaces like the surrender of the Camps, Stephany Mallard's bit, or latest trials and tribulations of the Group of Four.

Heck, even Rainbow Waters was interesting, if only because of the poetic way he expresses his sarcasm.

Further the entire Seijen Khody sequence seems to have led pretty much nowhere. Oh a touch of nice background but... Unless it leads Merlin to stumble across the means of taking out the OBS in the next book, it feels pointless. I also get a real feeling that with the increasing firepower on the temple side we could be looking at a WWII vs. WWI style battle in the next round.

Well it got them Helm Cleaver, a special ops insurgency group right in the middle of Zion. And Helmcleaver got dynamite to blow up Vicars with (and incidentally preserve Magwair's hide)...

But yeah, as far as the metaplot goes, not much advancement there.

And yea, as someone else wondered, I also wondered Why didn't Merlin/Nimue use a SNARC remote to set off the powder magazine on Dreadnaught. Damned transparent way to give the Dohlorian Navy an ironclad so that you have to have the King H's before you can take them on if you ask me.

Addressed in another thread. But my response basically comes down to: Merlin uses a "primitive" 500 lb laser guided bomb to set off a ship's magazine instead of a SNARC despite the SNARC being full capable of doing the same. There's gotta be a good reason for that.

SPOILERS..........


SPOILERS..........


SPOILERS..........



I have to confess to similar feelings. While I much enjoyed the portions in Zion where things seem to be coming a trifle unglued for the Gang of 4 and the Camp liberation sequences were touching, the battle sequences seemed abbreviated and the fact that lately the ICN seems to be losing Navel battles with no corresponding wins seems unnatural. AT the same time they seem to win every land battle with no reverses. We saw three entire fronts North, Center and South reduced basically to a hand wave of Artillery fire and a walkover for the ICA trampling their opponents. "Odd", said Mabel, "very odd."

Further the entire Seijen Khody sequence seems to have led pretty much nowhere. Oh a touch of nice background but... Unless it leads Merlin to stumble across the means of taking out the OBS in the next book, it feels pointless. I also get a real feeling that with the increasing firepower on the temple side we could be looking at a WWII vs. WWI style battle in the next round.

Probably a good time to develop tanks and spotting balloons for the ICA. Given the huge part artillery looks to be playing from now on.

I'm more worried that the next book might be all about the plot against the Empire back in Chisholm and internal matters, and a series of depressing battles that throw the ICA and Siddermark back against the mountains or are fought to a standstill in the midplains of Hildermoss, New Northlands and WestMarch provinces. Near parity in technology with the other guy outnumbering you is not a winning combo on a battlefield.

I suppose we will now have to wait and see.

I do have one recommendation though. Fewer snippets. I think we were all anticipating a lot more in the last part of the book and much of the more detailed battle was actually in the part we had snippet-ed in advance. Either backload more action and excitement in the back half of the book or snippet less of the book. I'll still buy the hard copy as well as the Kindle version, because I want David to make money and write more, but it was a little disappointing. Felt like too much, being rushed through too quickly in order to get it done and to a certain point.

And yea, as someone else wondered, I also wondered Why didn't Merlin/Nimue use a SNARC remote to set off the powder magazine on Dreadnaught. Damned transparent way to give the Dohlorian Navy an ironclad so that you have to have the King H's before you can take them on if you ask me.

Anyway that's my initial reaction.

Larry

What he said

I'll admit Dreadnought not being scuttled/blow up struck me as slightly odd but i just shrugged. war and fate are fickle things, no matter how well you plan that old demon Murphy can appear at any time.