(SPOILERS) What did Hauwerd tell Duchairn?

Before he died, Hauwerd Wilsyn made it a point to run into Duchairn and slip a letter into his pocket. Bets on what it said?


I'm going to bet that it said, "Hold on for another 20 years. The archangels are coming to fix things then.

Tararoys wrote:Before he died, Hauwerd Wilsyn made it a point to run into Duchairn and slip a letter into his pocket. Bets on what it said?


I'm going to bet that it said, "Hold on for another 20 years. The archangels are coming to fix things then.

Doubtful, since he knew Paityr was in Charis with the Stone and Key of Schueler. He would not have needed to tell Duchairn of that. Rather he likely impressed upon him the importance of surviving in the church long enough to be do something effective against Clyntahn.

Or he could have given him a list of contacts and what to do with them or instructions regarding what he had the power to do - RFC did hint that Duchairn is "up to something" in all of his visits to the hospices and soup kitchens around Zion. Remember that RFC had stated that the Go4 has no legal standing as a group within the church structure i.e. their collective authority is on an ad hoc basis (an expedient if you will). He also noted that Trynair, seeking a counterweight to Clyntahn power sought out Magwair and Duchairn and together they command all the major organs of the CoGA. The Wylsyns had been kept away from the sources of power for years now and had actually sought to recruit Duchairn into the circle. Realizing that they had run out of time, Hauwyrd had done the only thing he could have done - he recruited Duchairn posthumously and passed on to him critical information on their organization in Zion for him to use.

Tararoys wrote:Before he died, Hauwerd Wilsyn made it a point to run into Duchairn and slip a letter into his pocket. Bets on what it said?


I'm going to bet that it said, "Hold on for another 20 years. The archangels are coming to fix things then.

The most frequent suggestion which has come up in past discussions is that Hauwerd told Duchairn to trust Phandys--the man who eventually became Duchairn's guard, reporting directly to Clyntahn.

The idea revolves around how the Wylsyns died. Phandys went to Clyntahn with evidence that the Wilsyns were preparing to escape Zion. Phandys then led the Inquisitors to arrest him. But we know that the Wilsyns were not leaving Zion. Phandys ended up killing Hauwerd in an epic fight. During the fight, we discover that Phandys had previously served under Hauwerd.

So, the theory goes that Hauwerd and Phandys worked up a plan. Phandys would turn evidence in to Clyntahn, to get into his good graces. Phandys would then kill Hauwerd in battle, guaranteeing that Hauwerd would not have to face the Inquisition and give up evidence under torture. To top it off, the battle was witnessed by a number of other troopers, who were impressed by the honor and dignity of the battle. Having removed any danger to the allies of the Circle (in particular, Anzhelik), Phandys would then be in a favorable position to work his way further into Clyntahn's trust.

So if Hauwerd told Duchairn to trust Phandys, then they have been working together all this time. Phandys has been covering up Hauwerd's secret dealings, and passing misinformation to Clyntahn. He may also be figuring out who among the guard can be trusted.

Some have also suggested that Hauwerd told Duchairn about Anzhelik. But I find this less credible. Hauwerd died to keep that information from the Inquisition. I don't think he would have dared trust Duchairn enough to give it to him. But I'm willing to believe he might have given Duchairn some lesser contacts, which could connect to Anzhelik.

There are a couple of errors in your account that, while they don't actually weaken your conclusion, do impact it.

First, if somewhat trivially, Phandys reports to Rayno, not Clyntahn. However, he is certainly in very good odour with Clyntahn, who is amazingly confident that Phandys will be his tool when the time comes to eliminate Duchairn.

Much more importantly, Phandys did _not_ report the ice-boat reservation to Clyntahn, or to any Schuelerite. The man he went to was a major in the Temple Guard, whose name escapes me - a major who does seem to have been quite senior in the Inquisition's service, but a Guardsman none the less. He was also _not_ Phandys' immediate superior, since Phandys was a watch officer at the semaphore station, yet he immediately grabs his harness and tells Phandys to come with him, as he proceeds to launch the arrests of the Wylsynns - and thus the purge of the Circle, presumably following standing orders from the Grand Inquisitor.

I am, rather belatedly, wondering why. Phandys going to this officer can be, and officially probably was, explained by the fact that, however secret Clyntahn thought his preparations were, the grapevine knew full well that this was the guy tapped to grab the Wylsynns. Anybody seeking to demonstrate loyalty and curry favour would know who to approach. However, _why_ did he then invite Phandys to come along on a major, and extremely sensitive, operation that was clearly and completely none of Phandys' business? Why not just send him off with thanks - even walk him out to the Temple door - and _then_ charge off to start the strike against the Circle?

I dunno. It could be as simple as a quick visit to Clyntahn or Rayno that isn't shown, but I think that Hauwerd's, and Ahnzhelyk's, preparations were broader and deeper than we know even now. And that Clyntahn's grasp on the Guard assigned to the Temple itself has never been as firm as he imagines.

SWM wrote:

Tararoys wrote:Before he died, Hauwerd Wilsyn made it a point to run into Duchairn and slip a letter into his pocket. Bets on what it said?


I'm going to bet that it said, "Hold on for another 20 years. The archangels are coming to fix things then.

The most frequent suggestion which has come up in past discussions is that Hauwerd told Duchairn to trust Phandys--the man who eventually became Duchairn's guard, reporting directly to Clyntahn.

The idea revolves around how the Wylsyns died. Phandys went to Clyntahn with evidence that the Wilsyns were preparing to escape Zion. Phandys then led the Inquisitors to arrest him. But we know that the Wilsyns were not leaving Zion. Phandys ended up killing Hauwerd in an epic fight. During the fight, we discover that Phandys had previously served under Hauwerd.

So, the theory goes that Hauwerd and Phandys worked up a plan. Phandys would turn evidence in to Clyntahn, to get into his good graces. Phandys would then kill Hauwerd in battle, guaranteeing that Hauwerd would not have to face the Inquisition and give up evidence under torture. To top it off, the battle was witnessed by a number of other troopers, who were impressed by the honor and dignity of the battle. Having removed any danger to the allies of the Circle (in particular, Anzhelik), Phandys would then be in a favorable position to work his way further into Clyntahn's trust.

So if Hauwerd told Duchairn to trust Phandys, then they have been working together all this time. Phandys has been covering up Hauwerd's secret dealings, and passing misinformation to Clyntahn. He may also be figuring out who among the guard can be trusted.

Some have also suggested that Hauwerd told Duchairn about Anzhelik. But I find this less credible. Hauwerd died to keep that information from the Inquisition. I don't think he would have dared trust Duchairn enough to give it to him. But I'm willing to believe he might have given Duchairn some lesser contacts, which could connect to Anzhelik.

It seems to me that the "ice-boat message" may have been the signal to Phandys (if he was, in fact, the secret ally) that everything was in place regarding the safety of the families and other contacts and that the Inquisition could now do its worst.

This would be consistent with the proposition that Phandys needed to be in the arrest party, to ensure that Hauwerd was not inadvertently taken alive. Phandys reporting the mysterious message to his superior could well have been the means to secure precise timing of the strike and so leave nothing to chance.

No doubt Hauwerd would also have known precisely when to have the report of the message reach Phandys.

Nevertheless, this is all still pure speculation because, while we know that Duchairn is "up to something", I don't think that any authorial hints have ever brought Phandys into the actual frame.

wingfield wrote:Nevertheless, this is all still pure speculation because, while we know that Duchairn is "up to something", I don't think that any authorial hints have ever brought Phandys into the actual frame.

Absolutely true. David has been very careful in his depiction of Duchairn's dealings not to give any hints about what is really going on.

SWM wrote:

wingfield wrote:Nevertheless, this is all still pure speculation because, while we know that Duchairn is "up to something", I don't think that any authorial hints have ever brought Phandys into the actual frame.

Absolutely true. David has been very careful in his depiction of Duchairn's dealings not to give any hints about what is really going on.

I just hope that Phandys doesn't eliminate Clyntahn before the EoC gets their hands on him!

McGuiness wrote:I just hope that Phandys doesn't eliminate Clyntahn before the EoC gets their hands on him!

Despite the war going not-so-well for the Church, I think Clynthan's literally incapable of envisioning a scenario where he's held accountable for his actions.

My bet is that at his trial (if he lives to see it) he'll express himself and act in such a way as to elicit an oh crap moment from everyone present, making them realize that, this whole time, they've been following the commands of someone who is certifiably, demonstrably, clinically insane.

I wonder how the Safeholdian equivalent to the Nuremberg trials will work out after that?

peke wrote:Despite the war going not-so-well for the Church, I think Clynthan's literally incapable of envisioning a scenario where he's held accountable for his actions.

My bet is that at his trial (if he lives to see it) he'll express himself and act in such a way as to elicit an oh crap moment from everyone present, making them realize that, this whole time, they've been following the commands of someone who is certifiably, demonstrably, clinically insane.

I wonder how the Safeholdian equivalent to the Nuremberg trials will work out after that?

Presumably with a lot of beheadings, hangings, and firing squads!

McGuiness wrote:

peke wrote:Despite the war going not-so-well for the Church, I think Clynthan's literally incapable of envisioning a scenario where he's held accountable for his actions.

My bet is that at his trial (if he lives to see it) he'll express himself and act in such a way as to elicit an oh crap moment from everyone present, making them realize that, this whole time, they've been following the commands of someone who is certifiably, demonstrably, clinically insane.

I wonder how the Safeholdian equivalent to the Nuremberg trials will work out after that?

Presumably with a lot of beheadings, hangings, and firing squads!

Is it bad that I want to read about that?