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OBS Triggers?

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OBS Triggers?
Post by jlrice54   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:24 pm

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Ok, we know that Merlin and Owl tested the defenses of the OBS system and we know that:

1. Merlin's recon skimmer and lorries haven't triggered an OBS attack.
2. The OBS ignores steam engines.
3. The OBS seems to ignore the technology used by the archangels after creation and Shan Wei's fall.
4. Merlin's and now Nimue's power plants and electronics haven't triggered it so far.
5. There is the console in the basement of the Temple awaiting activation using Schueler's key.
6. The OBS system has active defenses that protect the platform from tampering.

Has RFC ever stated that the OBS is triggered autonomously? I read in the FAQ that it wasn't looking for advanced signatures like neutrino emissions but the signs of precursor technologies. Maybe it is only controlled manually from that console in the basement of the Temple? Is it possible that Langhorne wasn't going to put the platform on auto detect but was retaining ultimate control of the Rakaurai for himself and the angels?

Just some speculation.
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Re: OBS Triggers?
Post by Astelon   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:32 pm

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As far as I am aware there is no statement from the author about what exact thresholds would trigger the OBS, or even that it is on automatic and will fire without specific instructions. The concern comes from Merlin, probably because it would have been the smart way to design the system. Having said that we know the systems set up by Schuler and friends is not perfect and, in some ways, seems to be self defeating. With no balance of power in the church eventually corruption would cause its end, as we see now. So it is possible that the OBS must be manually triggered, but I tend to doubt it myself.
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Re: OBS Triggers?
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:00 pm

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Astelon wrote:As far as I am aware there is no statement from the author about what exact thresholds would trigger the OBS, or even that it is on automatic and will fire without specific instructions. The concern comes from Merlin, probably because it would have been the smart way to design the system. ...


Merlin's concern stems from the consequences of being wrong. The OBS CAN be set for autonomous, automatic triggering. Assuming that it is configured any less than fully autonomous and being wrong means total failure of Merlin's mission.

Some things, like electricity, which are explicitly banned by the Proscriptions have to be assumed to be trigger technologies. (Note "Electricity" and "Electronics" are not synonymous in this case. All of Merlin's, the Archangels, and OWL's electronics combined would be drowned out by the RF/EM emmissions of a single megawatt power station and one mile transmission line. )
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*** SPOILER ALERT *** Re: OBS Triggers?
Post by Keith_w   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:28 pm

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Weird Harold wrote: Merlin's concern stems from the consequences of being wrong. The OBS CAN be set for autonomous, automatic triggering. Assuming that it is configured any less than fully autonomous and being wrong means total failure of Merlin's mission.


Is there textev for the OBS being set to either autonomous or manual control? So far as I can recall, the only use we have seen of the OBS have been manually initiated to destroy Alexandria and St. Khody's abbey, as well as suggestions that it was used during the WATF
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Re: *** SPOILER ALERT *** Re: OBS Triggers?
Post by SWM   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:05 pm

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Keith_w wrote:
Weird Harold wrote: Merlin's concern stems from the consequences of being wrong. The OBS CAN be set for autonomous, automatic triggering. Assuming that it is configured any less than fully autonomous and being wrong means total failure of Merlin's mission.


Is there textev for the OBS being set to either autonomous or manual control?

No, in fact Merlin has NO idea what the OBS might be designed to do. This is not the original OBS that destroyed Alexandria. The OBS was rebuilt, apparently after the War of the Fallen. So Merlin has no idea what it's capabilities are, who built it, or why they built it.

All Merlin knows is that it is clearly a kinetic weapon launcher, it has six launch cells loaded, and it has active sensors and defensive systems which are still working. He knows what the original OBS was capable of. he knows that it is possible to design such a system to be autonomous, to detect various conditions and fire automatically. And he knows that there is some strong power source under the Temple.

Given all that, Merlin must assume the worst--that the system is intended to detect certain violations of the Proscriptions and either fire autonomously or to wake something under the Temple. Either result could cause total failure of his mission. Merlin has to assume this worst case because if he assumes otherwise incorrectly, he loses. Merlin will not do anything which might wake the OBS and/or whatever is under the Temple.
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Re: OBS Triggers?
Post by SWM   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:06 pm

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By the way, please be careful about unmarked spoilers.
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Re: *** SPOILER ALERT *** Re: OBS Triggers?
Post by Keith_w   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:13 pm

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SWM wrote: quote="Keith_w" quote="Weird Harold" Merlin's concern stems from the consequences of being wrong. The OBS CAN be set for autonomous, automatic triggering. Assuming that it is configured any less than fully autonomous and being wrong means total failure of Merlin's mission.

/quote
Is there textev for the OBS being set to either autonomous or manual control? /quote
No, in fact Merlin has NO idea what the OBS might be designed to do. This is not the original OBS that destroyed Alexandria. The OBS was rebuilt, apparently after the War of the Fallen. So Merlin has no idea what it's capabilities are, who built it, or why they built it.

All Merlin knows is that it is clearly a kinetic weapon launcher, it has six launch cells loaded, and it has active sensors and defensive systems which are still working. He knows what the original OBS was capable of. he knows that it is possible to design such a system to be autonomous, to detect various conditions and fire automatically. And he knows that there is some strong power source under the Temple.

Given all that, Merlin must assume the worst--that the system is intended to detect certain violations of the Proscriptions and either fire autonomously or to wake something under the Temple. Either result could cause total failure of his mission. Merlin has to assume this worst case because if he assumes otherwise incorrectly, he loses. Merlin will not do anything which might wake the OBS and/or whatever is under the Temple.

I know all that - that was the point of my question to Harold.. we don't know that it has an auto launch mode. Also, I don't remember reading that it had 6 loaded cells. I do remember that it blew Owl's snark away when it got too close.
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Re: OBS Triggers?
Post by Keith_w   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:14 pm

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SWM wrote:By the way, please be careful about unmarked spoilers.

If you are talking to me, I marked it as a possible spoiler in the title.
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A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: *** SPOILER ALERT *** Re: OBS Triggers?
Post by Kytheros   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:22 pm

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Keith_w wrote:
SWM wrote: quote="Keith_w" quote="Weird Harold" Merlin's concern stems from the consequences of being wrong. The OBS CAN be set for autonomous, automatic triggering. Assuming that it is configured any less than fully autonomous and being wrong means total failure of Merlin's mission.

/quote
Is there textev for the OBS being set to either autonomous or manual control? /quote
No, in fact Merlin has NO idea what the OBS might be designed to do. This is not the original OBS that destroyed Alexandria. The OBS was rebuilt, apparently after the War of the Fallen. So Merlin has no idea what it's capabilities are, who built it, or why they built it.

All Merlin knows is that it is clearly a kinetic weapon launcher, it has six launch cells loaded, and it has active sensors and defensive systems which are still working. He knows what the original OBS was capable of. he knows that it is possible to design such a system to be autonomous, to detect various conditions and fire automatically. And he knows that there is some strong power source under the Temple.

Given all that, Merlin must assume the worst--that the system is intended to detect certain violations of the Proscriptions and either fire autonomously or to wake something under the Temple. Either result could cause total failure of his mission. Merlin has to assume this worst case because if he assumes otherwise incorrectly, he loses. Merlin will not do anything which might wake the OBS and/or whatever is under the Temple.

I know all that - that was the point of my question to Harold.. we don't know that it has an auto launch mode. Also, I don't remember reading that it had 6 loaded cells. I do remember that it blew Owl's snark away when it got too close.

We don't know that it does. We don't know that it doesn't - but we know that it can.
Safer to assume that it does have an automatic trigger and act accordingly than to assume that it does not and accidentally trigger it.
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Re: *** SPOILER ALERT *** Re: OBS Triggers?
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:02 am

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Keith_w wrote:
Weird Harold wrote: Merlin's concern stems from the consequences of being wrong. The OBS CAN be set for autonomous, automatic triggering. Assuming that it is configured any less than fully autonomous and being wrong means total failure of Merlin's mission.


Is there textev for the OBS being set to either autonomous or manual control? So far as I can recall, the only use we have seen of the OBS have been manually initiated to destroy Alexandria and St. Khody's abbey, as well as suggestions that it was used during the WATF



No, there is NO textev regarding the OBS except that its self-defense function are still active and autonomous. That's really the whole point; Merlin does NOT know how the OBS is configured and has no way to find out how it is triggered without potentially catastrophic results.

Merlin did set up a test to see if the OBS would react to steam engines, but he needed steam technology enough to make the risk worthwhile. Setting up similar tests for other technologies isn't practical and the possible technologies, thus far, haven't been critical to Merlin's plans to make the risk worthwhile.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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