After the truth has been revealed...

Hokay...

...I'm sure there'll be several more books until this happens, but the light will prevail over Clyntahn, otherwise Safehold would be DW's biggest prank ever...

Anyway, so I wondered... there will be a time when the population will be enlightened about the "real" plan, where they've come from, the technology they have lost... so how do you keep them from simply using the knowledge stored away in Romulus' computer core to recreate, without any research?

Merlin wants the human race to rediscover ingenuity, which is fine. But let's say the truth comes out when Safehold has reached a tech base of the early 20th century. And suddenly people know that there are such things as computer. And jet engines. And laser scalpels. And MRT. Tech which they now know about, tech which will make their life infinitely better and tech which will not be available for decades. Except they simply don't research it but take the blueprints from the computer core. At which point all of Merlin's teachings will go out of the window.

So how do you keep them from demanding to be presented with ready blueprints instead of doing the time-consuming job of researching the stuff themselves?

clancy688 wrote:Hokay...

...I'm sure there'll be several more books until this happens, but the light will prevail over Clyntahn, otherwise Safehold would be DW's biggest prank ever...

Anyway, so I wondered... there will be a time when the population will be enlightened about the "real" plan, where they've come from, the technology they have lost... so how do you keep them from simply using the knowledge stored away in Romulus' computer core to recreate, without any research?

Merlin wants the human race to rediscover ingenuity, which is fine. But let's say the truth comes out when Safehold has reached a tech base of the early 20th century. And suddenly people know that there are such things as computer. And jet engines. And laser scalpels. And MRT. Tech which they now know about, tech which will make their life infinitely better and tech which will not be available for decades. Except they simply don't research it but take the blueprints from the computer core. At which point all of Merlin's teachings will go out of the window.

So how do you keep them from demanding to be presented with ready blueprints instead of doing the time-consuming job of researching the stuff themselves?

Well, for one thing, the Truth is going to be revealed a lot sooner than you think. David has made pretty clear that the Truth will be revealed around the time of the Millenial Return, i.e. in 20 years or so.

If a spirit of innovation has been properly instilled by then, and the Rakurai has been neutralized, I don't think there is any problem in letting people start using the designs from OWL. That was the original plan for Safehold, after all--they were supposed to keep those plans available to be used once the full truth was revealed. Sure ramp up the general technological level of Safehold as fast as you can. But at the same time, be sure to have universities and research labs set up to teach that level of technology, and to promote further research beyond Federation tech.

I think it would take a number of decades for the general level of technology available to the average citizen to reach Federation levels, simply because it would take that long to get the infrastructure built. But there is no reason that you could not have several research communities studying Federation tech and pushing its limits long before then. The best and brightest could apply to these advanced facilities.

SWM wrote:

clancy688 wrote:Hokay...

...I'm sure there'll be several more books until this happens, but the light will prevail over Clyntahn, otherwise Safehold would be DW's biggest prank ever...

Anyway, so I wondered... there will be a time when the population will be enlightened about the "real" plan, where they've come from, the technology they have lost... so how do you keep them from simply using the knowledge stored away in Romulus' computer core to recreate, without any research?

Merlin wants the human race to rediscover ingenuity, which is fine. But let's say the truth comes out when Safehold has reached a tech base of the early 20th century. And suddenly people know that there are such things as computer. And jet engines. And laser scalpels. And MRT. Tech which they now know about, tech which will make their life infinitely better and tech which will not be available for decades. Except they simply don't research it but take the blueprints from the computer core. At which point all of Merlin's teachings will go out of the window.

So how do you keep them from demanding to be presented with ready blueprints instead of doing the time-consuming job of researching the stuff themselves?

Well, for one thing, the Truth is going to be revealed a lot sooner than you think. David has made pretty clear that the Truth will be revealed around the time of the Millenial Return, i.e. in 20 years or so.

If a spirit of innovation has been properly instilled by then, and the Rakurai has been neutralized, I don't think there is any problem in letting people start using the designs from OWL. That was the original plan for Safehold, after all--they were supposed to keep those plans available to be used once the full truth was revealed. Sure ramp up the general technological level of Safehold as fast as you can. But at the same time, be sure to have universities and research labs set up to teach that level of technology, and to promote further research beyond Federation tech.

I think it would take a number of decades for the general level of technology available to the average citizen to reach Federation levels, simply because it would take that long to get the infrastructure built. But there is no reason that you could not have several research communities studying Federation tech and pushing its limits long before then. The best and brightest could apply to these advanced facilities.

Yeah, that would be beyond stupid. It would be insane, to the level of suicidally insane, to hand out future tech to empires like Desnair/Harchong.

Gee, let's equal out everyones tech, so that we can have a huge war and destroy safehold, or possibly end up their slaves, or back in the stone age. Yeah, that would be brilliant.

There is no way you can tell everyone, and hand out that level of tech, without a functioning world government. Or at least world wide alliance.

P.S. There won't be anything remotely like a functioning world government in 20 years.

P.P.S. Pretty sure the "tell everyone" was speculation about the millennial return. Even that was a "if we have to", not a "this is the plan". Nor do I remember "give out free tech tickets" even being suggested.

P.P.P.S. Did anyone else just have a nightmare thinking about totalitarian regimes, like Harchong and Desnair, with TF level tech? Talk about slavery.

I would think that the advancement of technology would be destablizing to societies like Harchong and Desnair who would want to turn back the clock to keep the lid on. On the one hand if they try to stay static, they fall behind. On the other, if they open up, they risk losing control of their populations.

Throw into the mix anti-modernity movements and things can look dicey indeed.

Don

n7axw wrote:I would think that the advancement of technology would be destablizing to societies like Harchong and Desnair who would want to turn back the clock to keep the lid on. On the one hand if they try to stay static, they fall behind. On the other, if they open up, they risk losing control of their populations.

Throw into the mix anti-modernity movements and things can look dicey indeed.

Don

He wasn't talking about said societies developing said technology, which would do just what you said. He was saying Merlin/EoC would just hand all the tech over to everyone. Which means the governments of those nations would control it, and control it with an iron fist.

That level of tech would allow them to TIGHTEN the controls on their population, as well as giving their military the ability to destroy anything and everything.

Isilith wrote:

n7axw wrote:I would think that the advancement of technology would be destablizing to societies like Harchong and Desnair who would want to turn back the clock to keep the lid on. On the one hand if they try to stay static, they fall behind. On the other, if they open up, they risk losing control of their populations.

Throw into the mix anti-modernity movements and things can look dicey indeed.

Don

He wasn't talking about said societies developing said technology, which would do just what you said. He was saying Merlin/EoC would just hand all the tech over to everyone. Which means the governments of those nations would control it, and control it with an iron fist.

That level of tech would allow them to TIGHTEN the controls on their population, as well as giving their military the ability to destroy anything and everything.

I don't believe there is anything in the story line about TF grade tech being handed over to anyone, even in Charis. I would expect that Merlin's knowledge bag would permit some short cuts and accelerate the process some, but basic tech skills will have to flow from application of the scientific method on Safehold even as it did on earth.

But to "hand over" TF level tech to anyone on Safehold would be as useful as giving the blue print to an atomic submarine to aborigonies. They simply wouldn't have the background to utilize it. Further, its going to take a couple generations before that significantly changes.

Don

What is TF tech?

clancy688 wrote:What is TF tech?

Terran Federation

I wouldn't be too terribly surprised if there is an advanced tech enclave started somewhere deserted--like, say, Armageddon Reef, where people who have been raised with the implants can study and advance prior to the entire populace being given advance TF level tech. Kind of elitism, I suppose, but someone has to get a head start, and boot strap everyone else up.

AClone wrote:I wouldn't be too terribly surprised if there is an advanced tech enclave started somewhere deserted--like, say, Armageddon Reef, where people who have been raised with the implants can study and advance prior to the entire populace being given advance TF level tech. Kind of elitism, I suppose, but someone has to get a head start, and boot strap everyone else up.

Probably not Armageddon Reef. That place was pasted to oblivion by the OBS.

I wouldn't be surprised to find another one under a mountain someplace though.

Don