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Chocolate

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Chocolate
Post by Keylac   » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:17 pm

Keylac
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Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:13 am

I was making real hot chocolate for the first time last night (okay, second time; first time successfully) and I got to wondering something.

Where does the chocolate used in the standard morning beverage of Safehold come from?

Here on Earth, it's grown in mostly Tropical Wet and Dry climates, such as Indonesia, Mexico, and the Ivory Coast. Safehold however, is a rockier, colder planet, so the corresponding places it could be grow would be reduced. My initial assumption would be that most of it comes form the "Out Islands," but then there'd be a major chocolate shortage on the mainland right now (Thanks Clyntahn!)

So... my guess is Sodar. It's northern parts are very close to the equator, which should make them acceptable for growing cacoa beans. Further, while the "industry" of several of the nations have been mentioned, the closest I can recall to anything in Sodar is sheep-stealing, which I doubt they based their entire economy on.

There's another reason I lean towards it too. Sodar is known as being among the poorest of all the mainland realms, mostly due to it's lack of internal rivers and crappy neighbors. Growing cacoa is actually a pretty terrible occupation, with low yields, low margin, and slow expansion. It's quite possible that they found themselves more or less forced to grow it from a lack of better options for an export commodity, but it's actually helping keep them poor.

What do you think?

- Cheers, Key
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Re: Chocolate
Post by TN4994   » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:12 pm

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Location: Apache County Arizona

Keylac wrote:I was making real hot chocolate for the first time last night (okay, second time; first time successfully) and I got to wondering something.

Where does the chocolate used in the standard morning beverage of Safehold come from?

Here on Earth, it's grown in mostly Tropical Wet and Dry climates, such as Indonesia, Mexico, and the Ivory Coast. Safehold however, is a rockier, colder planet, so the corresponding places it could be grow would be reduced. My initial assumption would be that most of it comes form the "Out Islands," but then there'd be a major chocolate shortage on the mainland right now (Thanks Clyntahn!)

So... my guess is Sodar. It's northern parts are very close to the equator, which should make them acceptable for growing cacoa beans. Further, while the "industry" of several of the nations have been mentioned, the closest I can recall to anything in Sodar is sheep-stealing, which I doubt they based their entire economy on.

There's another reason I lean towards it too. Sodar is known as being among the poorest of all the mainland realms, mostly due to it's lack of internal rivers and crappy neighbors. Growing cacoa is actually a pretty terrible occupation, with low yields, low margin, and slow expansion. It's quite possible that they found themselves more or less forced to grow it from a lack of better options for an export commodity, but it's actually helping keep them poor.

What do you think?

- Cheers, Key

Soil has to be wet but well drained. From a post to DAVIDWEBER.NET forums on 10/7/2011
Theemile wrote: Charis, Emerald, Corisande, Zebediah, and Tarot are all on or very near the equator; they have markedly less seasonal variation than the rest of the planet and are always going to be warmer, in both winter and summer, than someplace like Zion.
Then we have the Howard continent, Green Tree Island and a few smaller locales.
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Re: Chocolate
Post by Highjohn   » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:57 am

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I doubt that it is Sodar. For two reasons.

One: Southern Sidarmark and Southern "North Harchong", are both close to equator as well and have more land area. Plus if you are correct about the undesirability of growing coco then Harchong is perfect.

Two: I don't know about current coco prices.(I do know that there has been a chocolate shortage for the past several years, but that is all). But prices say four hundred years back were rather different(higher). Also the low profitability of growing chocolate could be due to artificial factors. Like, larger numbers of middle men or effective monopolies or simply the availability of cheap labor, reducing the desire to use more manpower efficient methods (for Safeholdian example see Harchong).
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Re: Chocolate
Post by phillies   » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:41 am

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Genetic engineering. It grows magnificently pole to pole, even in Zone 1 weather.

Highjohn wrote:I doubt that it is Sodar. For two reasons.

One: Southern Sidarmark and Southern "North Harchong", are both close to equator as well and have more land area. Plus if you are correct about the undesirability of growing coco then Harchong is perfect.

Two: I don't know about current coco prices.(I do know that there has been a chocolate shortage for the past several years, but that is all). But prices say four hundred years back were rather different(higher). Also the low profitability of growing chocolate could be due to artificial factors. Like, larger numbers of middle men or effective monopolies or simply the availability of cheap labor, reducing the desire to use more manpower efficient methods (for Safeholdian example see Harchong).
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Re: Chocolate
Post by TN4994   » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:11 pm

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Location: Apache County Arizona

Highjohn wrote:I doubt that it is Sodar. For two reasons.

One: Southern Sidarmark and Southern "North Harchong", are both close to equator as well and have more land area. Plus if you are correct about the undesirability of growing coco then Harchong is perfect.

Two: I don't know about current coco prices.(I do know that there has been a chocolate shortage for the past several years, but that is all). But prices say four hundred years back were rather different(higher). Also the low profitability of growing chocolate could be due to artificial factors. Like, larger numbers of middle men or effective monopolies or simply the availability of cheap labor, reducing the desire to use more manpower efficient methods (for Safeholdian example see Harchong).

On pricing:
Don't forget competition on earth from the availability of coffee and tea (OK - other beverages as well).
Supply and demand.
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Re: Chocolate
Post by JeffEngel   » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:45 pm

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phillies wrote:Genetic engineering. It grows magnificently pole to pole, even in Zone 1 weather.

If they do the same thing for coffee beans and sugar, they may have eliminated most impetus to violate the Proscriptions. "We have substances, praise the Archangels, Shan-wei cannot lure us with anything else!"
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Re: Chocolate
Post by BarryKirk   » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:17 pm

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Page 106 OAR... Sweet Dohlaran chocolate

Chocolate comes from Dohlar.
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Re: Chocolate
Post by TN4994   » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:35 pm

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BarryKirk wrote:Page 106 OAR... Sweet Dohlaran chocolate

Chocolate comes from Dohlar.

But where are the cocao beans grown?
Switzerland produces Swiss Chocolate, and Barvaria produces Barvarian Chocolate; but neither locale can grow Cocoa.
Last edited by TN4994 on Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chocolate
Post by BarryKirk   » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:22 pm

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TN4994 wrote:
BarryKirk wrote:Page 106 OAR... Sweet Dohlaran chocolate

Chocolate comes from Dohlar.

But where are the cocao beans grown?
Switzerland produces Swiss Chocolate, and Barvaria produces Barvarian Chocolate; but neither local can grow Cocoa.


True
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Re: Chocolate
Post by saber964   » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:06 pm

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TN4994 wrote:
BarryKirk wrote:Page 106 OAR... Sweet Dohlaran chocolate

Chocolate comes from Dohlar.

But where are the cocao beans grown?
Switzerland produces Swiss Chocolate, and Barvaria produces Barvarian Chocolate; but neither locale can grow Cocoa.



The various chocolates are the cocoa butter content percentage.
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