Church Financial status

The world at large must know the war and crusade has seriously cut into the coffers of the church, especially with their selling of assets, and other money initiatives they had to put into play. The thing is do they know just how servere their cash shortage is in comparison to public knowledge.
If the broad sheets that keep popping up, start showing their true financial status, the world knowing just how bad a position the church is in. It might make the more ambitious out there put the screws to the church. It would allow people justify asking for cash, deeds, or even other non church based currencies.
IT will really piss off the inquisition if their dirty laundry is aired for the world.

SYED wrote:The world at large must know the war and crusade has seriously cut into the coffers of the church, especially with their selling of assets, and other money initiatives they had to put into play. The thing is do they know just how servere their cash shortage is in comparison to public knowledge.
If the broad sheets that keep popping up, start showing their true financial status, the world knowing just how bad a position the church is in. It might make the more ambitious out there put the screws to the church. It would allow people justify asking for cash, deeds, or even other non church based currencies.
IT will really piss off the inquisition if their dirty laundry is aired for the world.

Wonder how much the Rulers of the Temple Lands are willing to cough up from their private coffers?

They're fighting for their survive and raising taxes would be suicide there isn't much to be taxed either. So they have two chooses: first to send a lot of their private income into Church budget or they could try to raise taxes, fees etc. Second option will kill economy of Temple Lands, first won't cost much, only smaller income for their families.

Draken wrote:They're fighting for their survive and raising taxes would be suicide there isn't much to be taxed either. So they have two chooses: first to send a lot of their private income into Church budget or they could try to raise taxes, fees etc. Second option will kill economy of Temple Lands, first won't cost much, only smaller income for their families.

These people don't pay taxes. They tax other people. It would be interesting to see how much of their private fortunes they are willing to cough up for "holy jihad," wouldn't it?

Don

n7axw wrote:

Draken wrote:They're fighting for their survive and raising taxes would be suicide there isn't much to be taxed either. So they have two chooses: first to send a lot of their private income into Church budget or they could try to raise taxes, fees etc. Second option will kill economy of Temple Lands, first won't cost much, only smaller income for their families.

These people don't pay taxes. They tax other people. It would be interesting to see how much of their private fortunes they are willing to cough up for "holy jihad," wouldn't it?

Don

Particularly if Clyntahn is the one making the "suggestion" that it it time they supported the jihad financially.

I think the Temple Loyalist banker will be "generous" even knowing that they will not get there money back.

Its only bankruptcy they face if things go bad supporting Clinton on the other hand failure to do there utmost to support the Jihad will result in "examples" being made by the Inquistion- I would make sure that I would not be one of them!

Fear not greed will drive the bankers and middle classes to support the temple- for now.

In the end though I wonder what will happen when the church pulls its money from Durchains charities that keep food on the table for the poor.

The poor in Zion have nothing to lose anyway so they might form a potent force of reform/rebellion in the city of Zion itself.

SYED wrote:The world at large must know the war and crusade has seriously cut into the coffers of the church, especially with their selling of assets, and other money initiatives they had to put into play. The thing is do they know just how servere their cash shortage is in comparison to public knowledge.
If the broad sheets that keep popping up, start showing their true financial status, the world knowing just how bad a position the church is in. It might make the more ambitious out there put the screws to the church. It would allow people justify asking for cash, deeds, or even other non church based currencies.
IT will really piss off the inquisition if their dirty laundry is aired for the world.

It would be a little hard for the inner circle to post broadsides revealing the true financial status of the Church because they don't know the true financial status of the Church. They suspect that the Church is hurting, and they can see the efforts Duchairn is putting into stretching their finances. But they don't actually know any more about how hurt the Church is than any other observer.

WARNING!

WARNING!

THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST INVOLVES SNIPPET MATERIAL!

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Hi TN4994,

Thanks SYED for bringing this up again.

Who knows,

Duchairn has already told Trynair the smart merchants and bankers were already doing this early in MTaT [February or March 896, IIRC}, the current currency conditions a year later would also be interesting to consider: Charis continuing to rise at least 2% a year, the CoGA mark falling by at least 2%, while the war results hammer Dohlar's and Desnar's marks, and Siddarmark's recovery.

I suspect the banks and merchants who couldn't unload their Siddarmark marks after the SoS, are secretly pleased the republic's been making a comeback, possibly back up to .48-9 last fall after BGV and DE's victories, and perhaps up to .70-72 after the AoJ/AoS became toast in February.

Who knows, by the time of the second anniversary of the SoS [after the MHoGatA are defeated], the RoS Mark might be back at its pre-SoS par, or even higher than the CoGA mark, to the utter mortification of Clyntahn, if he's still alive.


SPOILER WARNING!


SECOND SPOILER WARNING!


Proceed at your own risk.

Given Nynian's financial acumen, NTM the SSK's financial etc network, what are the odds she knows, without any notes from Duchairn, that the CoGA is having financial problems, and wants to exacerbate them which she can't do from Siddarmark?

Could this side trip be to see OWL making the gold and silver bars/marks [or counterfeiting them] that she needs?

What would happen if Nynian lets it be known there are a huge number of counterfeit gold and silver marks being used across Zion and CoGA countries, NTM apparently mainly used by the inquisition?

If the SSK has been introducing them quietly for at least 2-3 years, after making them for possibly decades, they could have moved throughout the CoGA economic and financial system, so when she shows that lots are fake [a special formula simple to make] it shakes the whole CoGA system from northwest Harchong to southeast Desnar because 10-20% of what everyone holds could now be fakes.

If 10-20% of the new tithes Harchong starts to pay are counterfeit, what do Clyntahn and Duchairn do?

I could see Duchairn complaining some of the old counterfeits are better made than some of the coins they're imitating.

The demand for hard currency or land or other property might compel putting more valuable properties than Duchairn originally intended up for sale or on offer to assure the temple's critics.

L

TN4994 wrote:

SYED wrote:The world at large must know the war and crusade has seriously cut into the coffers of the church, especially with their selling of assets, and other money initiatives they had to put into play. The thing is do they know just how servere their cash shortage is in comparison to public knowledge.
If the broad sheets that keep popping up, start showing their true financial status, the world knowing just how bad a position the church is in. It might make the more ambitious out there put the screws to the church. It would allow people justify asking for cash, deeds, or even other non church based currencies.
IT will really piss off the inquisition if their dirty laundry is aired for the world.

Wonder how much the Rulers of the Temple Lands are willing to cough up from their private coffers?

lyonheart wrote:WARNING!

WARNING!

THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST INVOLVES SNIPPET MATERIAL!

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Hi TN4994,

Thanks SYED for bringing this up again.

Who knows,

Duchairn has already told Trynair the smart merchants and bankers were already doing this early in HFaF [February or March 896, IIRC}, the current currency conditions a year later would also be interesting to consider: Charis continuing to rise at least 2% a year, the CoGA mark falling by at least 2%, while the war results hammer Dohlar's and Desnar's marks, and Siddarmark's recovery.

I suspect the banks and merchants who couldn't unload their Siddarmark marks after the SoS, are secretly pleased the republic's been making a comeback, possibly back up to .48-9 last fall after BGV and DE's victories, and perhaps up to .70-72 after the AoJ/AoS became toast in February.

Who knows, by the time of the second anniversary of the SoS [after the MHoGatA are defeated], the RoS Mark might be back at its pre-SoS par, or even higher than the CoGA mark, to the utter mortification of Clyntahn, if he's still alive.


SPOILER WARNING!


SECOND SPOILER WARNING!


Proceed at your own risk.

Given Nynian's financial acumen, NTM the SSK's financial etc network, what are the odds she knows, without any notes from Duchairn, that the CoGA is having financial problems, and wants to exacerbate them which she can't do from Siddarmark?

Could this side trip be to see OWL making the gold and silver bars/marks [or counterfeiting them] that she needs?

What would happen if Nynian lets it be known there are a huge number of counterfeit gold and silver marks being used across Zion and CoGA countries, NTM apparently mainly used by the inquisition?

If the SSK has been introducing them quietly for at least 2-3 years, after making them for possibly decades, they could have moved throughout the CoGA economic and financial system, so when she shows that lots are fake [a special formula simple to make] it shakes the whole CoGA system from northwest Harchong to southeast Desnar because 10-20% of what everyone holds could now be fakes.

If 10-20% of the new tithes Harchong starts to pay are counterfeit, what do Clyntahn and Duchairn do?

I could see Duchairn complaining some of the old counterfeits are better made than some of the coins they're imitating.

The demand for hard currency or land or other property might compel putting more valuable properties than Duchairn originally intended up for sale or on offer to assure the temple's critics.

L

TN4994 wrote:The world at large must know the war and crusade has seriously cut into the coffers of the church, especially with their selling of assets, and other money initiatives they had to put into play. The thing is do they know just how servere their cash shortage is in comparison to public knowledge.
If the broad sheets that keep popping up, start showing their true financial status, the world knowing just how bad a position the church is in. It might make the more ambitious out there put the screws to the church. It would allow people justify asking for cash, deeds, or even other non church based currencies.
IT will really piss off the inquisition if their dirty laundry is aired for the world.

SYED wrote:Wonder how much the Rulers of the Temple Lands are willing to cough up from their private coffers?

I got the impression that most of the currency in circulation is actual gold and silver coinage (probably introduced by Langhorne as a way of strangling commerce, which would tend to keep innovation down). If so, the value of the coin is in the actual metal in the coin, not on the perceived value of the coin. The only danger here is the shaving of coins (which was a problem in the ancient world here on Earth), and the reason that ridges were introduced on the edges of coins - to make it easy to detect that someone was shaving the value.

fallsfromtrees wrote:I got the impression that most of the currency in circulation is actual gold and silver coinage (probably introduced by Langhorne as a way of strangling commerce, which would tend to keep innovation down). If so, the value of the coin is in the actual metal in the coin, not on the perceived value of the coin. The only danger here is the shaving of coins (which was a problem in the ancient world here on Earth), and the reason that ridges were introduced on the edges of coins - to make it easy to detect that someone was shaving the value.

I can see various metals being used for currency. But several references are made to script, notes of credit, and such. Personal notes between nobles were a gentlemens' agreement on old earth, and banks got involved later on. The CoGA has issued promissory notes.