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The Moon and the Lizard.

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
The Moon and the Lizard.
Post by Tonto Silerheels   » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:14 pm

Tonto Silerheels
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Well, we seem to be in something of a lull so I thought that I would mention a couple of things that pricked my curiosity.

The first of those things is that lizards on Safehold have fur. I had always thought of mammals as the exclusive owners of hair, so it seems strange to me that something not-a-mammal has it. Wikipedia says that mammals are distinguished from reptiles and birds by the possession of hair, three middle ear bones, mammary glands, and a neocortex. I understand that Safehold species and Earth species have separate evolutionary histories, but I have to ask what it is that makes Safeholdian lizards lizards. Do they lay eggs? Do they have moveable quadrate bones? Do they have long bifurcate tongues?

The other thing was the size of Safehold's moon. I recall at least three military operations where the moon played a significant rôle. However, that is supposed to be rare in the universe. Moons are usually much smaller than their primaries, and the amount of light they reflect to the primaries' night side should be minimal. On the other hand I do seem to recall the existence of a theory stating that the possession of a large moon is a necessary prerequisite to abiogenesis, or there may be some other reason space-traveling humans chose a system with a large moon to inhabit.

~Tonto
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Re: The Moon and the Lizard.
Post by Dilandu   » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:27 pm

Dilandu
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Er. They are NOT the Earth lizards. They are absolutely different alien lifeforms, that haven't got ANYTHING familiar with earth lizards, exept that they look somewhat similar.

The shark and the dolphin also looks pretty similar, but the shark is a fish, and the dolphin is a highly-organised mammal.

but I have to ask what it is that makes Safeholdian lizards lizards.


Look, it's natural for humans to call the different species with familiar names. For example, the Tasmanian Wolf. The Safeholdian lizards probably just look somehow similar to the Earth lizards. And i assure you - the Lathine therms may be correct, but they are almost completely usless for simple naming.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: The Moon and the Lizard.
Post by Tonto Silerheels   » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:08 pm

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Dilandu wrote:

Er. They are NOT the Earth lizards. They are absolutely different alien lifeforms, that haven't got ANYTHING familiar with earth lizards, exept that they look somewhat similar.

Yes. I understand that they have completely separate evolutionary histories. I even mentioned it. The point being is that if I, an Earth human, saw something that had fur, drank milk, curled up in your lap, enjoyed being petted, purred, and had six legs then I wouldn't call it a cat-lizard. I would call it a cat-beetle, or a cat-insect, or a near-cat, or a hexacat, or a Siamese cat. Ergo, there must be something more lizard-like about cat-lizards or other Safeholdian "lizards" than what I am imagining. Either that or the guy in charge of naming them had the last name Lizard, and wanted to immortalise himself by naming every species after himself. Eddie Lizard, perhaps.

Perhaps I can persuade Mr. Weber to name some things on Safehold after myself. Silerheels Skunk, perhaps? Or the Garden Slug-Silerheels? Or the Silerheels Shrew?

~Tonto
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Re: The Moon and the Lizard.
Post by Dilandu   » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:09 pm

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Well, is some creature look lire a furry lizard and behave like a cat, why are we simply didn't call it a cat-lizard? ;)
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: The Moon and the Lizard.
Post by Tonto Silerheels   » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:20 pm

Tonto Silerheels
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Posts: 454
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Dilandu wrote:

Well, is some creature look lire a furry lizard and behave like a cat, why are we simply didn't call it a cat-lizard?

You may have just given me the answer! I think there much be a limited range of motion between the cat-lizard's legs and its body, and the legs must be pointed outward. That being so it must walk by flexing its body, giving it that characteristic serpentine motion when it walks.

So, what are your thoughts on the moon?

~Tonto
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Re: The Moon and the Lizard.
Post by Dilandu   » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:58 pm

Dilandu
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Moons are usually much smaller than their primaries, and the amount of light they reflect to the primaries' night side should be minimal.


This isn't just a size of the moon, it's her albedo. For example, asteroid Vesta has a albedo of 0,45 - more than four times than the Luna.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: The Moon and the Lizard.
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:22 pm

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Obviously, Safehold has a somewhat large moon because David Weber wanted Safehold to have one. :twisted:


Tonto Silerheels wrote:Well, we seem to be in something of a lull so I thought that I would mention a couple of things that pricked my curiosity.

The first of those things is that lizards on Safehold have fur. I had always thought of mammals as the exclusive owners of hair, so it seems strange to me that something not-a-mammal has it. Wikipedia says that mammals are distinguished from reptiles and birds by the possession of hair, three middle ear bones, mammary glands, and a neocortex. I understand that Safehold species and Earth species have separate evolutionary histories, but I have to ask what it is that makes Safeholdian lizards lizards. Do they lay eggs? Do they have moveable quadrate bones? Do they have long bifurcate tongues?

The other thing was the size of Safehold's moon. I recall at least three military operations where the moon played a significant rôle. However, that is supposed to be rare in the universe. Moons are usually much smaller than their primaries, and the amount of light they reflect to the primaries' night side should be minimal. On the other hand I do seem to recall the existence of a theory stating that the possession of a large moon is a necessary prerequisite to abiogenesis, or there may be some other reason space-traveling humans chose a system with a large moon to inhabit.

~Tonto
*
Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
*
Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
*
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Re: The Moon and the Lizard.
Post by Tanstaafl   » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:50 am

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The Safehold moon must be quiet large.

Even in Tellersberg the tide is big enough to influence the coming and going of ships. While the earth moon is not big enough to produce much of a tide in the Mediterranean. Howell bay and the Mediterranean are of comparable size.
...
The abstinents are right,
but only the drinkers know why
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Re: The Moon and the Lizard.
Post by Dilandu   » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:06 am

Dilandu
Admiral

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Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

Tanstaafl wrote:The Safehold moon must be quiet large.

Even in Tellersberg the tide is big enough to influence the coming and going of ships. While the earth moon is not big enough to produce much of a tide in the Mediterranean. Howell bay and the Mediterranean are of comparable size.


It may simply be closer, and have a bigger albedo.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: The Moon and the Lizard.
Post by Philip Stanley   » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:22 pm

Philip Stanley
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Why does Tellesberg have a significant tide? Isn't Howell Bay isolated from the Anvil, or any other of the major seas of Safehold by the relatively narrow Throat. I would expect Howell Bay to have almost no tide, being so relatively small that no tidal oscillation could build up in there (think about the Mediterranean Sea on Earth).
Also, if my theory above is true, and there is almost no tide in Howell Bay, then the Throat, connecting it to the Sea of Charis and beyond, where there are major tides, should be subject to major tidal currents four times a day (think about the Straights of Gibraltar). These rips have never been mentioned in any of the volumes so far.
Any one care to comment?
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