SPOILER! -Will the SSK release its Holy writ originals ?

Howdy all,

Rereading HFQ's chapter 2 reminded me of a question I meant to bring up earlier.

Given Merlin's mission to destroy the CoGA, it might be more effective to initially show how the temple has doctored the Holy Writ, to wreck the average person's trust in the Go4 and anyone who takes over from them.

Since the SSK have copies of the Holy Writ and the Testimonies prior to the temple's editing ~2 centuries after creation [HFQ chapter 2, second section], when all the Adam's and Eve's had died; publishing them to point out the discrepancies would be very useful in ruining most people's well trained trust if it were done right.

I'm asking for help in figuring how they might be made known to prove their provenance in order for them to be accepted, then how they should be presented.

Millions of copies could then be made throughout the EoC and the RoS, and smuggled into the remaining CoGA lands, but it will take some clever ideas to avoid the temple simply denouncing them as forgeries.

I suspect it might be done after the temple has been humbled, and someone stumbles over some old copies whose printing date and obvious age prove their historicity, but that's only at a personal level.

The SSK wouldn't be revealing themselves, since I believe they control a number of small convents and monasteries that could appropriately arrange to reveal these relics, ie being discovered during an overdue cleaning of some very old rooms or cave cells wrought into the mountain, hidden in a wall etc.

Having Duchairn or whoever's left witness their authenticity NTM prior printing date etc, would help, but there will still be hundreds of millions who would still reject them, despite the temple's obvious venality.

I suspect the details of Seijin Khody's life might be the baited hook the SSK has been building up through all the all stories about him it kept alive if not embellished through all these centuries, to overcome such rejection and hesitation when the time finally came.

Of course, that's only the teaser for publishing Khody's journal, obviously with the translation of the secret language, revealing what life was actually like ~700 years ago which ought to fascinate lots of people.

I can't help feel that's one of the things pushing Nynian to get Merlin's help with, and why I think their alliance will turn out well.

While OWL could easily forge copies of his pre-WotF versions as well, they will likely be kept back until after these shocking revelations are publicized, in part because these are already known to be added, but useful in increasing the general questioning of how well the CoGA fulfilled its duties, the respective character of Schueler and Chihiro and the Holy Writ's authenticity itself etc, etc, which may be something Seijin Khody mentioned a few times.

Please feel free to suggest your solutions, I look forward to them all, including the very frivolous some will obviously offer.

Thank you ahead of time.

L

PS: Since her briefing Merlin took hours, they now have quite an excuse to spend more hours together late at night.

So how soon before the Siddarmarkians find out?

Hmm how about whatever surviving texts of the first Abbas and the knowledge of the Church's deception in removing Sejin Khody's memory from Writ and Testimonies, but as you say how to bring out with out the Church's claiming it's a lie.

Hmm, Introduce Sejin Khody's journal and how the church changed the Writ and Testimonies as a novel? Gets the idea out there that the church may have done such a thing.

Poker

But how they would manage to persuade peoples, that this version is true?

Not sure how secret the changes to the Writ itself actually are. The fact may be known but the detail not I suppose.

The problem of course is proving provenance, I don't see how you can do it without 'outing' the SSK, otherwise they might as well publish OWL's copy of the original Writ, with whatever ageing and other fakery suggests itself as appropriate. I think you will only be preaching to the converted though. The Temple's line will be 'Shan Wei is the mother of lies, this attack on the Holy Writ shows you where the Charisians are coming from.'

As for the Testimonies, apart from regarding Kohdy, where the SSK are clearly partisan, do we know that they even have copies of other changes to the Testimonies?

Randomiser wrote:
The problem of course is proving provenance, I don't see how you can do it without 'outing' the SSK, otherwise they might as well publish OWL's copy of the original Writ, with whatever ageing and other fakery suggests itself as appropriate. I think you will only be preaching to the converted though. The Temple's line will be 'Shan Wei is the mother of lies, this attack on the Holy Writ shows you where the Charisians are coming from.'

As for the Testimonies, apart from regarding Kohdy, where the SSK are clearly partisan, do we know that they even have copies of other changes to the Testimonies?

Hm. But the SSK have at least some artifacts, that clearly belonged to the Kohdy. The demonstration of "Saint Kohdy magical sword" may be usefull. Of course, the Church may claim that it wasn't the real saint sword but some Shan-Wei dark magic, but it would be the same problem as Merlin's existience - if the Shan-Wei could bring magical objects in the world, so where is the angels that should stop this?

Might the populace of Safehold not find it interesting that seijin are now coming out of the woodwork? Might they also not find it interesting that seijin are helping people the CoGA claim are heretics? Silly me, there is text evidence that this is so already.

Now it shall be revealed that one of the archangels used God's holy fire to destroy the Abbey of one of God's most ardent and successful heroes. A hero that was also a seijin. A seijin that was murdered in the Temple. That archangel also happened to gain control of the CoGA (assumption). Is it any wonder no seijin showed his/her face until they were ready to resist the true rebellion against God? The rebellion that was revealed when one of God's greatest champions was murdered by supporters of the very archangel that founded the current corrupt version of God's true Church.

So, it shall be put to you, oh loyal sons of God, do you support an institution that has been corrupted since at least the end of the War Against the Fallen? Or do you stand with God and those that would cleanse the Church He desired for mankind?

That narrative would work nicely, eh?

PeterZ wrote:Might the populace of Safehold not find it interesting that seijin are now coming out of the woodwork? Might they also not find it interesting that seijin are helping people the CoGA claim are heretics? Silly me, there is text evidence that this is so already.

Now it shall be revealed that one of the archangels used God's holy fire to destroy the Abbey of one of God's most ardent and successful heroes. A hero that was also a seijin. A seijin that was murdered in the Temple. That archangel also happened to gain control of the CoGA (assumption). Is it any wonder no seijin showed his/her face until they were ready to resist the true rebellion against God? The rebellion that was revealed when one of God's greatest champions was murdered by supporters of the very archangel that founded the current corrupt version of God's true Church.

So, it shall be put to you, oh loyal sons of God, do you support an institution that has been corrupted since at least the end of the War Against the Fallen? Or do you stand with God and those that would cleanse the Church He desired for mankind?

That narrative would work nicely, eh?

It would be too much to chew and too basic-crushing to be usefull. Some parts of it may be effective, but surely, no one could blame the Group of Four for some events that PROBABLY take place more tan six hundreds years ago! So the main effect would be not against Go4, but against the Church main doctrine - and it would be the doomsday weapon in current conditions, making damage to both sides.

The major part of Charisian energy in this war were taken from the religion. To try to damage the RELIGION now would be dangerous for Charis as much (probably even more) than the Go4.

Dilandu wrote:
It would be too much to chew and too basic-crushing to be usefull. Some parts of it may be effective, but surely, no one could blame the Group of Four for some events that PROBABLY take place more tan six hundreds years ago! So the main effect would be not against Go4, but against the Church main doctrine - and it would be the doomsday weapon in current conditions, making damage to both sides.

The major part of Charisian energy in this war were taken from the religion. To try to damage the RELIGION now would be dangerous for Charis as much (probably even more) than the Go4.

I agree. The point was how to present the SSK information in such a way that it might be believed. I believe that the re-emergence of seijins can be made to support the SSK documents. If the greatest of all seijin was murdered by the CoGA, is it any wonder that Khody's supporters and seijin in general hid? If Khody served the dark, then why not expose him in the spirit of truth?

Will it take some time for the narrative to persuade enough people to destroy the church? Yes, it will.

If, however, enough people believe it immediately, Charis has justification for its actions sanctioned by history. Further, Charis and Archbishop Maikel, will then have the lever to question the scope of the power the G4 and the current CoGA have aggregated unto itself. Leveraging power away from the Church will take time, time to insert more innovations.

The attack is NOT against the belief in God, but in those that aggregated unto themselves power God never intended for them.

PeterZ wrote:
I agree. The point was how to present the SSK information in such a way that it might be believed. I believe that the re-emergence of seijins can be made to support the SSK documents. If the greatest of all seijin was murdered by the CoGA, is it any wonder that Khody's supporters and seijin in general hid? If Khody served the dark, then why not expose him in the spirit of truth?

Will it take some time for the narrative to persuade enough people to destroy the church? Yes, it will.

If, however, enough people believe it immediately, Charis has justification for its actions sanctioned by history. Further, Charis and Archbishop Maikel, will then have the lever to question the scope of the power the G4 and the current CoGA have aggregated unto itself. Leveraging power away from the Church will take time, time to insert more innovations.

The attack is NOT against the belief in God, but in those that aggregated unto themselves power God never intended for them.

Well, some parts of this - presuambly in some redacted forms - would be handy. If it may be presented as "seijin Kohdy battled to purge the Church of God from the seed of mortal corruption and was erased by corrupt clerigy" and supported by the demonstration of the legendary sword, the Go4 would found themselves in pretty vunerable position. It wouldn't immediately destroy them - after all, the events of the distant past surely isn't their fault! - but all Charisian schism would now have something very important: the historical basis.

We know of two major changes in the Church. The power struggle that moved the order of Kwo-Jeng (sp?) from the Council of Vicars and raised the the order of Langhorne to supremacy. The declaration that the Grand Vicar speaks infalliably as the word of God instead of just one of the senior servants. There must be some historical reccords documenting these changes.

If the changes, with the documentation, are made public as examples of how the Church is taking more powers onto itself these might be used to illustrate that the leaders of the Church have always felt free to give themselves more power. Even to re-write the Writ.

Hopefully, nimbler minds can do more with this than this old fart.