Upcoming Ops (SPOILER)

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum, but a long time Weber fan. I look forward to discussing possible future operations with all of y'all. For the record, I am in the Army and proudly from the deep South.

*spoiler alert--I'll be discussing events as of the end of LAMA and future possibilities from there*

So, let's get started. First off, congrats to Weber for a job well done with the book. I got it Friday February 14 and finished it over the weekend. I look forward to his opening the next one with Green Valley's op against the AoS and, hopefully, one of Clyntyn's hilarious tirades and tantrums in front of the group of 4 for losing 2 substantial armies in his Jihad.
On that note, let's talk tech--is anyone else surprised neither side has developed a machine gun or even a Gatling Gun yet? I get the no-electricity; therefore, no telegraph--but we're roughly in what was the 1850-1890s timeframe. Those things were coming out in the Am Civil War.

Now, we get to the future possibilities. The Charisian Empire and its allies simply do not have the numbers to continue the war as they have, qualitative edge or not. Even if they hand over all of Siddermark back to the Republic, which they will, they do not have the numbers to occupy three whole continents and maintain stability in the fledgling Empire. Granted, Dohlar must be taken care of, Silkiah is a possible ally/buffer-zone in the region against Desnair, but the don't have the numbers to occupy Desnair, Delferahk, Sodar, South Harchong and the Border States in addition to taking the war to Zion on its own Temple Lands. Nevermind, the bulk of the Harchong Empire on West Haven.
In my mind, the best they could do is take out Dohlar, South Harchong, and Delferahk. That would secure their logistics and contain Desnair on three sides along with forcing Harchong to divide its forces, assuming the Go4 would allow it.
I'm really hoping they bypass the Border States. Charis has 3 field armies operating in the Republic. Destroy the AoS and finish off Glacierheart and you gain more possibilites. With the Republic secure, the take two of their armies and send one into the Dohlar-Silkiah bottleneck and pin all of Howard down. From there send another north into the border states and force the CoGA to further divide its forces and halt the Charisian "advance" there. Paving the way for ICA/ICN's main effort.

In LAMA, Charis raided the northern Republic provinces on the mouth of the Hsing-Wu Passage. I think they should go back into the Passage in force with a full ICN task force and the 3rd army from the Republic--now freed up. From there punch into the Temple Bay and launch a surgical strike on Zion and maybe even the Temple itself. Even with the CoGA's new initiatives and reinforcement armies, they would have to be caught off guard and out of position by this. Plus it would be the counterweight--and payback--for the Church's initial operation back when it was just facing the Kingdom of Charis. Then, they would have to follow that up instead of just raiding the place.

Logistics wouldn't be an issue with the ICN at their back and the relative ease of defeating the Border states in a pincer movement. With the Temple under siege and the strong garrison/delaying force in Zion preventing any meaningful Harchong reinforcement, setting up a similar position to that of Ceasar's at Alesia. They could force the outcome of the war on Charisian terms instead of smashing each individual force the Church sends, however entertaining that is to read--remember how a similar operation worked for the Germans in WWII.

What are y'alls thoughts?

Not sure occupying any of the mainland is a good idea even if they have the manpower. Grind Gorath to dust, leave Rahlnyld headless, secure access to the Salthar Canal, claim several island in the Gulf of Dohlar as coaling bases and repatriate Dairnyth to Siddermark. If Charis secures those objectives, they don't have to occupy any mainland territory.

The destruction of Gorath and it's king is a promise to any other nation that allows the Inquisition to abuse POWs. The bases in the Gulf and access to the Salthar Canal secures Charisian presence in the heart of the mainland trade routes. Dairnyth and the secure Dohlaran border with Siddermark provides for Siddermark's safety.

Zion may be reached via Hsing-wu's Passage with a dozen or two King Haraald's. Every other nation has a valubale port city exposed to ICN displeasure. Once Siddermark is secure, winning the war doesn't require occupying anything beyond Zion. The ICN can get there easily enough after Hsing-wu's Passage thaws.

Zhasper as Hitler in 'Downfall' anyone?

ChronicRder wrote:
On that note, let's talk tech--is anyone else surprised neither side has developed a machine gun or even a Gatling Gun yet? I get the no-electricity; therefore, no telegraph--but we're roughly in what was the 1850-1890s timeframe. Those things were coming out in the Am Civil War.

First you have to develop contained in one piece ammunition, which has been thought of but not yet available before LaMA. Not having the book yet, I don't know how this progressed.

Gatlings and other hand cranked guns were available in very limited quantities in the Civil War, but machine guns that really worked had to wait for smokeless powder, which again is being thought of with the accidental discovery of gun cotton.

1. Black powder leaves an awful lot of crud in the barrel and gums up the works. Hand cranked guns pull the cartridge case out of the barrel fairly slowly. A machine gun yanks it out so quickly that a lot of crud would be left in the chamber.

2. Gun cotton burns too fast, so the necessary next step is to treat it with various alcohols.

3. Smokeless powder puts out about three times the energy of black powder and you really need this to operate a machine gun.

Poudre B (for powder blanc -- Blanc is French for white so "white powder" to distract the German spies) came into being some 35 years after gun cotton. Then again with Merlin to make a few suggestions, who knows?

PeterZ wrote:Not sure occupying any of the mainland is a good idea even if they have the manpower. Grind Gorath to dust, leave Rahlnyld headless, secure access to the Salthar Canal, claim several island in the Gulf of Dohlar as coaling bases and repatriate Dairnyth to Siddermark. If Charis secures those objectives, they don't have to occupy any mainland territory.

The destruction of Gorath and it's king is a promise to any other nation that allows the Inquisition to abuse POWs. The bases in the Gulf and access to the Salthar Canal secures Charisian presence in the heart of the mainland trade routes. Dairnyth and the secure Dohlaran border with Siddermark provides for Siddermark's safety.

Zion may be reached via Hsing-wu's Passage with a dozen or two King Haraald's. Every other nation has a valubale port city exposed to ICN displeasure. Once Siddermark is secure, winning the war doesn't require occupying anything beyond Zion. The ICN can get there easily enough after Hsing-wu's Passage thaws.

Undoubtedly, long term occupation would be a catastrophically bad idea. I was suggesting that deploying a field army to check the only land routes into the Republic would be the best bet to divide the AoG's member armies. Furthermore, they would only have to be in those areas for the duration the Jihad.

The CoGA has existed, was in fact founded as, a planet wide unity of believers. Divided, the Church is much more unstable and can be defeated in detail much more easily than taking everything on when they are unified.

Gunny wrote:

ChronicRder wrote:
On that note, let's talk tech--is anyone else surprised neither side has developed a machine gun or even a Gatling Gun yet? I get the no-electricity; therefore, no telegraph--but we're roughly in what was the 1850-1890s timeframe. Those things were coming out in the Am Civil War.

First you have to develop contained in one piece ammunition, which has been thought of but not yet available before LaMA. Not having the book yet, I don't know how this progressed.

Gatlings and other hand cranked guns were available in very limited quantities in the Civil War, but machine guns that really worked had to wait for smokeless powder, which again is being thought of with the accidental discovery of gun cotton.

1. Black powder leaves an awful lot of crud in the barrel and gums up the works. Hand cranked guns pull the cartridge case out of the barrel fairly slowly. A machine gun yanks it out so quickly that a lot of crud would be left in the chamber.

2. Gun cotton burns too fast, so the necessary next step is to treat it with various alcohols.

3. Smokeless powder puts out about three times the energy of black powder and you really need this to operate a machine gun.

Poudre B (for powder blanc -- Blanc is French for white so "white powder" to distract the German spies) came into being some 35 years after gun cotton. Then again with Merlin to make a few suggestions, who knows?

Thanks for the lesson! I love learning new stuff about old weapon systems.

At the risk of spoiling more of the book for you, towards the middle of the book, they talk about magazine fed bolt-actions on the assembly-line. Rifles akin to the Enfield. If they have magazines for rifles, how much different is that from MG or pistol magazines?

ChronicRder wrote:Undoubtedly, long term occupation would be a catastrophically bad idea. I was suggesting that deploying a field army to check the only land routes into the Republic would be the best bet to divide the AoG's member armies. Furthermore, they would only have to be in those areas for the duration the Jihad.

The CoGA has existed, was in fact founded as, a planet wide unity of believers. Divided, the Church is much more unstable and can be defeated in detail much more easily than taking everything on when they are unified.

Totally agree with the last paragraph. Controling the Gulf of Dohlar is the best way to separate Howard from Haven and Dohlar from both. If Siddermark captures the Barony of Charlz and Sardahn, they will have control of the Holy Langehorn Canal and the road network around Mahrtynberg and St. Vyrdyn. That'll provide cushion against future large scale invasions.

That state of affairs will leave The Temple Lands and Harchong the last remaining loyalist nations still connected to the CoGA. If the coGA wants to recoup its preeminence, it must reform Harchong. Good luck. If duchairn succeeds, he will have helped Merlin's goal pretty well.

PeterZ wrote:

ChronicRder wrote:Undoubtedly, long term occupation would be a catastrophically bad idea. I was suggesting that deploying a field army to check the only land routes into the Republic would be the best bet to divide the AoG's member armies. Furthermore, they would only have to be in those areas for the duration the Jihad.

The CoGA has existed, was in fact founded as, a planet wide unity of believers. Divided, the Church is much more unstable and can be defeated in detail much more easily than taking everything on when they are unified.

Totally agree with the last paragraph. Controling the Gulf of Dohlar is the best way to separate Howard from Haven and Dohlar from both. If Siddermark captures the Barony of Charlz and Sardahn, they will have control of the Holy Langehorn Canal and the road network around Mahrtynberg and St. Vyrdyn. That'll provide cushion against future large scale invasions.

That state of affairs will leave The Temple Lands and Harchong the last remaining loyalist nations still connected to the CoGA. If the coGA wants to recoup its preeminence, it must reform Harchong. Good luck. If duchairn succeeds, he will have helped Merlin's goal pretty well.

If he succeeds he will both accomplish Merlin's goal and give Charis a run for its money--which is still Merlin's goal if you consider how impartial his mission is towards any one Safeholdian nation. Then again, if what we're talking about happens, all Duchairn's success will be voided with the EoC's seizure of the Temple.
don't know about you, but I'm looking forward to an Inquisitor slaughterfest.
As interesting and thrilling as this Jihad has been, I have to wonder what the aftermath will look like/play out. What will keep driving the need for Merlin's innovations and inventions with so much of the planet still in the dark about Operation Ark's original intent and objectives?

One possibility is that in the Temple basement/Nimue showdown--which must occur at some point--everyone will witness the truth. That would provide a great impetus.

ChronicRder wrote:...
As interesting and thrilling as this Jihad has been, I have to wonder what the aftermath will look like/play out. What will keep driving the need for Merlin's innovations and inventions with so much of the planet still in the dark about Operation Ark's original intent and objectives?

Since we are discussing early crank operated Machine guns you may wish to know the types I'll start with my favorite:

1) The Gardner although the least produced was probably the best. This short video shows its operation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-x7B-pj3_o

The Gardner influenced the first fully automatic Machine gun the Maxim that's operation is in short video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1SbcZQ0N5A

2) The Gatling Gun is much more complex three times the firing mechanisms as the Gardner and cylindrical curves to machine. The following short video shows the operation of the Gatling gun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoMe8hV6uFM

3) Similar looking to a Gatling but with a different mechanism is the Hotchkiss 37 MM automatic cannon. This short video shows its operation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkOP8Lwdmgg

4) Heavy and cumbersome is the Reffy Mitrailleuse of 1867. This short video shows its operation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO3haWrRtrY&feature=related

My most prolific gunsmith buddy has made a Gardner and a Gatling, he curses making a Gatling due to the difficulty of machining the slots inside a cylinder to operate the mechanism. The Gardner is a simple to machine cam system.

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