What if Earth didn’t fall?

It dawns on me that the inner circle around Merlin and Nimue are just assuming that Earth fell to the Gbaba. I wonder if their could have been a Babylon 5 “esque” Battle of the Line, where Earth’s defenders just manage to our last the last bit of the Gbaba’s Navy. I realize it’s unlikely. But I would think that in such a case, the remnants of the Earth military would hunt down the Gbaba homeworld and deal with them once and for all, before they could rebuild. The problem is that we zero information on the final battle for earth, and the only one who does know is DW. And in a really odd twist of things, it could still allow the development of multiple Star Nations that we see in the Harrington universe, but it wouldn’t be the same exactly, since obviously Harrington’s universe didn’t suffer a near extinction event like the Gbaba.

DW, if you’re reading this. Thank you for all these stories, they’ve been fun in the reading and the re reading.

Sadly, in TFT, it explicitly says that In 2430, the Gbaba cracked the Final Redoubt and all human life in the Sol System ceased to exist.

Deltaflot wrote:It dawns on me that the inner circle around Merlin and Nimue are just assuming that Earth fell to the Gbaba. I wonder if their could have been a Babylon 5 “esque” Battle of the Line, where Earth’s defenders just manage to our last the last bit of the Gbaba’s Navy. I realize it’s unlikely. But I would think that in such a case, the remnants of the Earth military would hunt down the Gbaba homeworld and deal with them once and for all, before they could rebuild. The problem is that we zero information on the final battle for earth, and the only one who does know is DW. And in a really odd twist of things, it could still allow the development of multiple Star Nations that we see in the Harrington universe, but it wouldn’t be the same exactly, since obviously Harrington’s universe didn’t suffer a near extinction event like the Gbaba.

DW, if you’re reading this. Thank you for all these stories, they’ve been fun in the reading and the re reading.

I wonder if their could have been a Babylon 5 “esque” Battle of the Line, where Earth’s defenders just manage to our last the last bit of the Gbaba’s Navy.

Unfortunately it is very unlikely. The Gbaba simply have too many ships. The Federation was unable to defeat Gbaba even when they have not only the limited resources of the Final Redoubt, but all Federation star systems together. The probability that Earth alone could manage to muster more forces than all the Federation altogether... is just illogical.

Unless some force majeure intervened on the behalf of humans, they have to practical way of winning the war.

But I would think that in such a case, the remnants of the Earth military would hunt down the Gbaba homeworld and deal with them once and for all, before they could rebuild.

...But the Gbaba have not only their homeworld, that's the problem! They have interstellar empire of their own - numerous star systems, numerous colonies. They were able to defeat Terran Federation exactly because they have absolute industrial superiority, and could just out-build Federation on such scale, that made any conflict hopeless at that time.

Most importantly, if Terran Federation somehow survived, they would clearly send a ship to check Safehold colony.

Dilandu wrote:

I wonder if their could have been a Babylon 5 “esque” Battle of the Line, where Earth’s defenders just manage to our last the last bit of the Gbaba’s Navy.

Unfortunately it is very unlikely. The Gbaba simply have too many ships. The Federation was unable to defeat Gbaba even when they have not only the limited resources of the Final Redoubt, but all Federation star systems together. The probability that Earth alone could manage to muster more forces than all the Federation altogether... is just illogical.

Unless some force majeure intervened on the behalf of humans, they have to practical way of winning the war.

But I would think that in such a case, the remnants of the Earth military would hunt down the Gbaba homeworld and deal with them once and for all, before they could rebuild.

...But the Gbaba have not only their homeworld, that's the problem! They have interstellar empire of their own - numerous star systems, numerous colonies. They were able to defeat Terran Federation exactly because they have absolute industrial superiority, and could just out-build Federation on such scale, that made any conflict hopeless at that time.

Most importantly, if Terran Federation somehow survived, they would clearly send a ship to check Safehold colony.

Terra, quite deliberately, had absolutely no idea where Safehold is.

Deltaflot wrote:I wonder if their could have been a Babylon 5 “esque” Battle of the Line, where Earth’s defenders just manage to our last the last bit of the Gbaba’s Navy.

Remember that in B5 the Humans didn't outlast the Minbari. Not even close. They were getting beat like a drum, blasted out of space nearly faster than new ships could take position to be blasted.

They "won" only because the Minbari surrendered. And that only because the Grey Council ordered them to, because of their sudden 'proof' of Minbari souls being reborn in humans (i.e. Sinclair, who as yet had not become Valen). Of course their proof was no such thing anyway, but merely Sinclair in Minbari form giving "a prophecy" of what he knew had to happen.

Deltaflot wrote:I realize it’s unlikely.

That might need to be nominated for understatement of the year.

An unlikely scenario, but more likely than this, is that there was another secret earlier seeding mission that didn't suffer the technological ban on its planet, and is now already taking the fight to the Ghaba

Daryl wrote:An unlikely scenario, but more likely than this, is that there was another secret earlier seeding mission that didn't suffer the technological ban on its planet, and is now already taking the fight to the Ghaba

Agreed that it's very unlikely. Not sure if it's less or not.

Though it would be basic common sense from a spycraft-style cell basis that each group thought they were the only group.

Still very unlikely...

Tararoys wrote:Sadly, in TFT, it explicitly says that In 2430, the Gbaba cracked the Final Redoubt and all human life in the Sol System ceased to exist.

Oh sure! Quote the book to destroy my argument!

Forgot about that part. Oh well, so much for that idea.

Thanks to all who responded

Deltaflot wrote:

Tararoys wrote:Sadly, in TFT, it explicitly says that In 2430, the Gbaba cracked the Final Redoubt and all human life in the Sol System ceased to exist.

Oh sure! Quote the book to destroy my argument!

Forgot about that part. Oh well, so much for that idea.

Thanks to all who responded

Of course that does not mean that some other 'splinter' group didn't make it out to hide in some other system, although I really doubt the story is going to head in that direction.

FriarBob wrote:

Deltaflot wrote:I wonder if their could have been a Babylon 5 “esque” Battle of the Line, where Earth’s defenders just manage to our last the last bit of the Gbaba’s Navy.

Remember that in B5 the Humans didn't outlast the Minbari. Not even close. They were getting beat like a drum, blasted out of space nearly faster than new ships could take position to be blasted.

They "won" only because the Minbari surrendered. And that only because the Grey Council ordered them to, because of their sudden 'proof' of Minbari souls being reborn in humans (i.e. Sinclair, who as yet had not become Valen). Of course their proof was no such thing anyway, but merely Sinclair in Minbari form giving "a prophecy" of what he knew had to happen.

By a similar token, humanity surviving the Covenant in the Halo games depended on the Covenant falling into civil war right on Earth's doorstep. There's no such indication that the Gbaba were under any such similar internal tensions that would snap because humanity found some deep dark secret of theirs and exposed it.

And narrative speaking, it'd be bad to have the Big Bad of the setting taken out offscreen by Earth. Hell, Earth's survival pretty much renders all the hell and suffering that Safehold went through utterly pointless.

Unless a surviving Earth somehow started acting like the Gbaba (aka, exterminating every sentient race they can find) after defeating the actual Gbaba. In which case, why even have them survive when you can use the actual Gbaba to fill the same role?