HFQ Official Snippet #5

The memory wipe may also not have been perfect. There is a lot of individual to individual variation in neurobiology. Some individuals (Kohdy?) may have been inherently resistant to the memory wipe. Language is so basic that by the time one is an adult it's almost a reflex. If a memory wipe works anything like "normal" memory loss the elderly experience, the most recent memories would be the first to go, childhood memories toward the last, and fundamentals like language only at the end. So, if anything were to be missed by a wipe of that type, something that fundamental (Spanish) would be.

DrakBibliophile wrote:Why would a crew member consider another crew member on the other side a Demon?

PeterZ wrote:Sorry, Randomiser, but the convolutions necessary to explain how a pro Langhorne colonist learned or remembered Spanish would be so torturous as to give Clyntahn an exquisite jolt of sadistic pleasure. Occam's razor suggests Khody was a crew member.


Demon and opposing crew member might well be synonymous. I don't think an ignorant colonist with with some tech goodies would be classified as a demon. Demon worshiper without doubt, but not demon. I may of course be wrong.

As was posted down thread, Drak, a supporter of the CoGA would use the vernacular of the colonists in correspondence and conversations that colonists would be privvy to. Not doing so would undercut the CoGA's authority in some small way. Done often enough and that authority would be shredded.

biochem wrote:The memory wipe may also not have been perfect. There is a lot of individual to individual variation in neurobiology. Some individuals (Kohdy?) may have been inherently resistant to the memory wipe. Language is so basic that by the time one is an adult it's almost a reflex. If a memory wipe works anything like "normal" memory loss the elderly experience, the most recent memories would be the first to go, childhood memories toward the last, and fundamentals like language only at the end. So, if anything were to be missed by a wipe of that type, something that fundamental (Spanish) would be.

The only problem with that is apparently the other 8 million Adam and Eves were successfully wiped.

biochem wrote:If a memory wipe works anything like "normal" memory loss the elderly experience, the most recent memories would be the first to go, childhood memories toward the last, and fundamentals like language only at the end. So, if anything were to be missed by a wipe of that type, something that fundamental (Spanish) would be.

I don't think a memory wipe works anything like "normal memory loss.

Why is everyone ignoring the "serendipity," "Coincidence," or whatever you want to call it that Nimue's last upload to her PICA was for a trip to the Andes -- where Spanish happens to be the primary language.

Saint Zhernau (sp) expected Nimue/Merlin to appear. Why wouldn't the Sisters of Saint Kohdy have the same sort of "prophesy" and a secret message that only Merlin can be expected to read.

There is another possibility. One of Kohdy's parents is a member of the command crew while the other is an Adam/Eve (or both parents were command crews but he was raised planetside). It was mentioned that some of the command crew did have children (commander Pei regretted not being able to have any due to their supposely separation from Shan-wei and Wylsyn was rumored to be descended from Schueler)

That command crew's native language was probably Spanish and have spoken to their child (Kohdy) in Spanish when he was young and hence transfer knowledge of Spanish. It could be why Kohdy may have a leg-up in becoming a Seijin, having a command crew as parent may have given him a bit more knowledge than the other Safehold born people.

If so, the more interesting question, was anything 'modern' left behind to Kohdy by his command crew parent (which may have been transferred to SSK after Kohdy have died).

Another question arises, is Nynian related to Kohdy? It was mentioned that Kohdy's body was return to his family, which may indicate he may have children. SSK may have recruited many of Kohdy's descendants as members, nothing like having blood-relations with the founding symbol of your organization to ensure loyalty.

So- it's the Wed after the Tue post- a mere 10 pages and 2550 views--Not shocked.

Because to use a NEAT you need implants, and only humans born on earth did have them.

Runsfor wrote:
Ah, the heady speculation! [/

That wouldn't be a pun?

Brog wrote:There is another possibility. One of Kohdy's parents is a member of the command crew while the other is an Adam/Eve (or both parents were command crews but he was raised planetside). It was mentioned that some of the command crew did have children (commander Pei regretted not being able to have any due to their supposely separation from Shan-wei and Wylsyn was rumored to be descended from Schueler)

That command crew's native language was probably Spanish and have spoken to their child (Kohdy) in Spanish when he was young and hence transfer knowledge of Spanish. It could be why Kohdy may have a leg-up in becoming a Seijin, having a command crew as parent may have given him a bit more knowledge than the other Safehold born people.

If so, the more interesting question, was anything 'modern' left behind to Kohdy by his command crew parent (which may have been transferred to SSK after Kohdy have died).

Another question arises, is Nynian related to Kohdy? It was mentioned that Kohdy's body was return to his family, which may indicate he may have children. SSK may have recruited many of Kohdy's descendants as members, nothing like having blood-relations with the founding symbol of your organization to ensure loyalty.

I agree that that is a possibility as well (although I still hold out on the idea of Spanish being a "secret" or "holy" tongue known only to the Seijin and the "Archangels"). However, that does leave the rather sticky point of the circumstances of his death. If he was the son of one of the command crew (thus the son of an "angel") and was taught to speak Spanish at home (and obviously taught to read and write in Spanish as well) how then would said "angelic" parent feel about the death of his or her son? Can't imagine they would accept whatever excuse provided by the church or even by their fellow crew member Schueller if it was not convincing in and of itself (no accepting the "word of the archangels" at face value because it was spoken by the archangels). Unless of course they had died in the Commodore's fireball that is.

thanatos wrote:That command crew's native language was probably Spanish and have spoken to their child
I agree that that is a possibility as well (although I still hold out on the idea of Spanish being a "secret" or "holy" tongue known only to the Seijin and the "Archangels"). However, that does leave the rather sticky point of the circumstances of his death. If he was the son of one of the command crew (thus the son of an "angel") and was taught to speak Spanish at home (and obviously taught to read and write in Spanish as well) how then would said "angelic" parent feel about the death of his or her son? Can't imagine they would accept whatever excuse provided by the church or even by their fellow crew member Schueller if it was not convincing in and of itself (no accepting the "word of the archangels" at face value because it was spoken by the archangels). Unless of course they had died in the Commodore's fireball that is.

If Kohdy was command crew or had a command crew parent, why would he have to go to Schuler or any of the ArcAngels to resolve his doubts or questions? He could have just asked his parent(s). Kohdy was probably an Adam, part of an elite unit known as Seijins who fought for the Schuler/Chihiro faction. The "fallen" evidently had their own special forces, called demons by the church. According to textev one of these "demons" defeated and captured Kohdy and proved to be surprisingly human. Probably giving Kohdy an alternate history and allowing Kohdy to go free in a most undemonic act of kindness. That mercy would give Kohdy serious doubts as to whether Kohdy was fightng on the side of god or not.

The only piece of federation tech known to be possessed by Kohdy was his "magic" battle steel sword. When Merlin is found to not only have the same type of magic sword but a number of other tech devices, as well as the key of Schuler and the brotherhood of St. Zherneau allows access to their documentation there is a hell of a lot more evidence than just Merlin's word that he is telling the truth to convince Nynian & the SSK.

If Espanol is a secret language known to Seijins and Archangels why write in Espanol unless Kohdy expected or hoped that some future seijin or ArcAngel would read it? Kohdy did not share his diary or knowledge of its existence with anyone in Zion or they would have confiscated & destroyed it. How did the SSK come into possession of Kohdy's diary and sword and why did they decide to keep these items secret from the rest of the church? The founders of the SSK must have suspected foul play in Kohdy's death. I hope this snippet thread doesnt end too soon as I don't think I can wait for the book to resolve these and other questions. This is one of the best plot twists ever from our favorite twisty-minded master storyteller.

I went back and reread this passage and there are more questions than answers. Why didn't either side use any firearms, beam weapons? They were Archangels, angels and lesser angels and should have had some access to them. Merlin has a cave full of them. The final stand of the War of the Fallen is in the Desolation Mountains. Is there another secret base still hidden there? There is also the 'written' fact that there are Archangels, angels, lesser angels and 'seijin'. Seijin are more likely reeducated Adams or Eves that prior to the embarkation had now necessary skills that had become muscle memory. They may have reimplanted their original personalities and moved on with the struggle.

Lastly, the Mother Abbess was almost 100 and her brother and father were vicars. The father was either an Adam or a first generation Safeholdian. If the last strike of the Rakurai, the last blow of the War of the Fallen was when she died, that was much later than many of us expected. There had to be someone specifically in control of the OBS, with extremely precise targeting. A lesser angel or leadership of the CoGA?