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HFQ Official Snippet #8

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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by ManyMyths   » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:44 pm

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DrakBibliophile wrote:Nod. There may be ship building in Chisholm, Emerald and Tarot but it hasn't been mentioned yet.

We do know that the Imperial Navy has people serving in it from those parts of the Empire.

Now, while I may be off on how quickly ship building can restart on Corisande, I think it's safe to say that there was no navy ships being bthe Empire, I'm sure that ship building (especially navy ships) will resume.



There's text ev that Tarot was building galleons for the Church but couldn't arm or deliver them. Was discussed by GO4 when discussing how badly they would be hurt militarily if Gorjah defected.
Ann
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:17 pm

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I was thinking that Corisandian ship builders could build schooners before their crews are retrained on modern composite construction. Even after they are trained in the new techniques, there will still be demand for schooners.

Consider what one of those schooners armed with fore and aft 4" rbls on rotating centerline mounts can do to schooners armed with smooth bores. As soon as those rbls fire shells filled with HE using smokeless powder, privateers will be easily outclassed and outranged.

Bottom line is that private contractors sailing on schooners armed with modern breachloading rifles firing HE shells propelled with smokeless powder will swat away any Desnari privateers. If Cayleb offers multi-year contracts with combat bonuses and awards for prizes captured, he can incent significant numbers private investors to build and crew those naval contractor convoy escorts.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by SYED   » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:39 am

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DIdnt chrisholm, corisande, emerald and tarot all get money to aid in their naval movements, which they invested in their shipyards and docks.

we know the empire used converted merchant ships, why not make Q ships? Ships that appear to be commercial shipping, but turn out to be armed enought to deal with raiders. so force the raiders to consider ever imperial ship, merchant or war, to be a threat.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by n7axw   » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:56 am

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SYED wrote:DIdnt chrisholm, corisande, emerald and tarot all get money to aid in their naval movements, which they invested in their shipyards and docks.

we know the empire used converted merchant ships, why not make Q ships? Ships that appear to be commercial shipping, but turn out to be armed enought to deal with raiders. so force the raiders to consider ever imperial ship, merchant or war, to be a threat.


This would be like Thirsk's "trap galleons" is BSRA... I bet the ICN could do it better than Dohlar. I think there should be as many Q shps as possible...

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by lyonheart   » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:15 am

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Hi SYED,

Kudos fro dredging up that solution! ;)

The crown might even offer bounties to private corporations to hunt down these commerce raiders, "head money" for everyone killed or captured.

Officially sponsored mercenaries then dredges up names like Black Water, so could the Earl of Black water turn out to be a major investor or an excellent ship captain or even coomodore, for another of RFC's terrible inside jokes?

Could Joe Buckley secretly be the new Earl of Black Water?

Anyone have other nominations?

L


SYED wrote:DIdnt chrisholm, corisande, emerald and tarot all get money to aid in their naval movements, which they invested in their shipyards and docks.

we know the empire used converted merchant ships, why not make Q ships? Ships that appear to be commercial shipping, but turn out to be armed enought to deal with raiders. so force the raiders to consider ever imperial ship, merchant or war, to be a threat.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:32 am

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SYED wrote: we know the empire used converted merchant ships, why not make Q ships? Ships that appear to be commercial shipping, but turn out to be armed enought to deal with raiders. so force the raiders to consider ever imperial ship, merchant or war, to be a threat.


The problem is that the Q ships is... not a good idea against zealous enemy, that would not be bothered to the "rules of war". The raiders would simply start to fire on every Charisian-flagged ships, without attempts to take it. And Q-ship against surface raider in pre-radio era would be much less effective, that against submarine in radio era. Q-ships were generally efficient against subs because subs a very sensitive to ANY damage that may affect their diving ability. Even if sub would be able to outgun and eventually sunk the Q-ship, she may take some damage, that would pretty much make her unable to dive. And when the other side warships (called by the Q-ship) appeared, the sub would be in hopeless situation.

Also, i recall the italian "Torichelli" submarines, that clearly show the Royal Navy thet they definitely MUSN NOT underestimate the submarine, caught on surface and unable to dive. ;)
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by n7axw   » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:52 am

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Dilandu wrote:
SYED wrote: we know the empire used converted merchant ships, why not make Q ships? Ships that appear to be commercial shipping, but turn out to be armed enought to deal with raiders. so force the raiders to consider ever imperial ship, merchant or war, to be a threat.


The problem is that the Q ships is... not a good idea against zealous enemy, that would not be bothered to the "rules of war". The raiders would simply start to fire on every Charisian-flagged ships, without attempts to take it. And Q-ship against surface raider in pre-radio era would be much less effective, that against submarine in radio era. Q-ships were generally efficient against subs because subs a very sensitive to ANY damage that may affect their diving ability. Even if sub would be able to outgun and eventually sunk the Q-ship, she may take some damage, that would pretty much make her unable to dive. And when the other side warships (called by the Q-ship) appeared, the sub would be in hopeless situation.

Also, i recall the italian "Torichelli" submarines, that clearly show the Royal Navy thet they definitely MUSN NOT underestimate the submarine, caught on surface and unable to dive. ;)


Hi Dilandu,

I suppose it would depend on whether it would be better for the ship to be destroyed or taken. In a normal war this would be a valid question.

But this is jihad. Any heretics taken are subjeect to the punishment. Then too, would Charis rather see its cutting edge military supplies in Desnair or Davy Jones' locker?

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by lyonheart   » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:03 am

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Hi Don,

I believe we had Sharpfield in OAR thinking about the 5-6 galleons in the Chisholm Navy, obviously unarmed supply ships, but no hint they were bough or built elsewhere may indicate Chisholm has shipyards able to build more than galleys, which it evidently did, remember how King Sailys died.

I suspect there have been many old Charisian investors willing to invest in building the empire's infrastructure in each part, especially when its subsidized.

We also have textev that Siddarmark is building schooners to help patrol its coasts against the commerce schooners, so enough schooners may soon be available as direct escorts.

The Maikelberg type medium cruiser with 4X6" guns seems best for the commerce raider hunter mission, particularly in terms of cost, but competes for the few large engines.

Time for several different steam engine assembly lines!

Besides the new steel plant almost finished at Maikelberg, there's the one at Tellesberg, tripling Charis's steel production soon [we've been reading about them for 3 books, so no complaints about them being surprises, please], relieving the pressure on steel production exclusively for the war effort.

For now, a single Eraystor or 'city' ironclad with each convoy ought to be enough of a deterrent once word gets back, though it will be a while, but we don't have any figures on how many there are in the city class.

Despite the green timber galleons being retired a couple books back, and some captured NoG and Harchong turned into troop ships, the ICN ought to have some where between 100-150 galleons in commission, so if over half are on convoy duty and Sharpfield has ~34, there are still 2-3 dozen available to increase those convoy escorts, albeit at some reduction to the size of the ICN's home and station fleets.

Once DE and EHM pass Hanth, it'll be time for those sailors and particularly the gunners at Thesmar etc, plus the marines in southern Siddarmark to return to sea, if indeed there is a shortage of sailors for the ICN.

Blockading the approaches to the convoys heading to the republic using the relatively narrow channels around Tarot is one method, but will Rock Point consider using the SNARC's to set fire and destroy some of the commerce schooners that are never heard from again?

If more simply don't come back, for whatever reason, it might deter others, and when the other ironclads are reported, it will be assumed those unexplained that didn't come back met them earlier.

L


n7axw wrote:Hi Drak,

You might be right. But consider. Corisande, Emerald, Chisholm and Tarot all had docking slips capable of building galleys. Of the four, we have no text ev for Chisholm or Emerald building galleons.

That means all four have personnel with experience at ship building and the building slips are in place. So it's not as though you would be starting from scratch. You would need to send in teams from Charis, yes. But the purpose of those teams would be to introduce Sir Dustyn's design and supervise its implementation, not to teach the locals their trade. I would personally expect that once you got things under way, it would go more quickly than you might expect. I would start out by building light combatants such as schooners that can be built in greater numbers in a given time frame.

Where I would expect a bottleneck would be with the artillery needed to arm the hulls you build. Right now the army is soaking up everything that the major iron works can produce. But there is a new plant going in at Chisholm and Coisande had some capacity for producing cannon. Maybe a couple of lines could be developed for producing the smooth bore cannon the schooners would need. And for that matter arming the merchant galleons that are the privateers intended prey. I wonder how many guns could be put on a galleon before you start having hogging and other safety related problems.

Don
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by lyonheart   » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:15 am

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Hi ManyMyths,

Very true.

There were 22 conversions and 18 new build, the main problem being enough good cannons, though it was a struggle without canals and coastal shipping etc; which have either been scrapped, returned to their owners, or finished, probably with Charisian cannon.

Again like Siddarmark, increased schooner production to patrol the channels around Tarot ought to be fairly easy to do, the experienced sailors available, so this current vulnerability may be rather temporary.

Then when the ICN sailors and marines in Siddarmark have re-embarked, and been reequipped with the trapdoor Mahndrayns, grenades and mortars, etc, I suspect coastal raids along Desnar's east coast to become quite common, reducing the supply, coupled by possible bombardments of Desnar and Geyra etc.

Expecting further clarification in snippet #9,

L


ManyMyths wrote:
DrakBibliophile wrote:Nod. There may be ship building in Chisholm, Emerald and Tarot but it hasn't been mentioned yet.

We do know that the Imperial Navy has people serving in it from those parts of the Empire.

Now, while I may be off on how quickly ship building can restart on Corisande, I think it's safe to say that there was no navy ships being bthe Empire, I'm sure that ship building (especially navy ships) will resume.



There's text ev that Tarot was building galleons for the Church but couldn't arm or deliver them. Was discussed by GO4 when discussing how badly they would be hurt militarily if Gorjah defected.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:18 am

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n7axw wrote:
Hi Dilandu,

I suppose it would depend on whether it would be better for the ship to be destroyed or taken. In a normal war this would be a valid question.

But this is jihad. Any heretics taken are subjeect to the punishment. Then too, would Charis rather see its cutting edge military supplies in Desnair or Davy Jones' locker?

Don


Hi,Don.

The problem is, that the Q-ships must ambush the enemy, take him by surprise.

And in Charisian situation it simply wouldn't work. Deshnarian raiders would just fire on any Charisian ship they met; they probably wouldn't even bother to try to take it, especially in convoy attack.

So... it really didn't matter, are you used a Q-ship, or simply armed your merchants.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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