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HFQ Official Snippet #16

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: HFQ Official Snippet #16
Post by isaac_newton   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:04 pm

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Randomiser wrote:
n7axw wrote:Hi Lyonheart,

Your scenario does make sense. The last textev does have Alverez on the Fort Sandfish road, but it really doesn't make sense for him to stay on it.

I wonder if he will be able to forage well enough to keep his men fed. The other question is if he will be tipped off to Hanth before running into him.

Don


Actually, the last textev has him 'halfway to Thesmar', as I quoted in my last post. That comes from a summary in the authorial voice so I think we can take it as being fairly well established.

But I agree with Isaac Newton that Lyonheart's suggested rate of progress is far too fast. They don't have a highroad once they turn west, they do have a baggage train to slow them down and if they have to forage as well, that's going to be even slower.


I just found an interesting forum discussion about marching rates in the Americal Civil War
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107050
For example, one chap discusses Sherman march thru Georgia where they go for a month at about 10miles/day

Shermans troops were veterans but and kept up a good average pace for a month. Some units greatly exceeded it on some days. The army traveled with limited wagons and artillery but they had to forage extensively. The march was a prodigious feat. No green armies or group of commanders could have kept it up so long. Most troops did far more than double 5 miles a day. I've seen it suggested that Sherman's march was 300 miles. I find that unacceptable but I realize that we are talking marching miles not airline miles. Considering the roadnet of the time plus tactical concerns and strategic deception I realize many troops may have surpassed that.


that sounds like a similar sort of scenario to Alvarahez
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #16
Post by ParanoidMarvin   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:07 pm

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BobG wrote:I think helmet diving (which was used before SCUBA) would be more viable. However, that would take a hose from a hand-driven pump on land to the divers. I am assuming the ship is not close enough for a pressure line, because it would otherwise be visible.


My thoughts as well. Wouldn't be surprised if we see the ships carrying a set or two for underwater repair work, etc.

BobG wrote:SCUBA seems difficult, although possible. High pressure tank metallurgy is the biggest issue as far as I am concerned. A steel tank capable of holding 72 cu in of compressed air will last about an hour close to the surface.


Metallurgy is one of those things that could be taught by OWL without breaking any Proscriptions. It took so long on Earth because it was what amounted to trial and error over hundreds of years. The inner circle knows what they need to do, so they just have a "flash of inspiration" or two and bypass all that pesky experimentation.

BobG wrote:Both CaC and Photoluminescence seem like nonstarters to me. The former generally requires electric arcs, while the latter requires some mildly complex organic chemistry.


Complete agreement on that.

I'm going to vote for some variant of a snorkel on a frogman, with a slight amount of suspension of disbelief on the navigation front.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #16
Post by 6L6   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:12 pm

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Dosen't Ahlverez have to cross the Seridahn in order to reach Dohlar? He could find the crossing places blocked by the river boats holding him in place while Earl Hanth and Eastshare converge on him.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #16
Post by isaac_newton   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:16 pm

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Randomiser wrote:
n7axw wrote:Hi Lyonheart,

Your scenario does make sense. The last textev does have Alverez on the Fort Sandfish road, but it really doesn't make sense for him to stay on it.

I wonder if he will be able to forage well enough to keep his men fed. The other question is if he will be tipped off to Hanth before running into him.

Don


Actually, the last textev has him 'halfway to Thesmar', as I quoted in my last post. That comes from a summary in the authorial voice so I think we can take it as being fairly well established.

But I agree with Isaac Newton that Lyonheart's suggested rate of progress is far too fast. They don't have a highroad once they turn west, they do have a baggage train to slow them down and if they have to forage as well, that's going to be even slower.



Given what/where/who Alvarahez has to march thru and get passed and away from, I'm wondering if this is heading towards his end game - rather like Robert E Lee before Appomattox Court House?

maybe we will see something like...

To "General R.E. Lee, Commanding C.S.A.:
5 P.M., April 7th, 1865.
The results of the last week must convince you of the hopelessness of further resistance on the part of the Army of Northern Virginia in this struggle. I feel that it is so, and regard it as my duty to shift from myself the responsibility of any further effusion of blood by asking of you the surrender of that portion of the Confederate States army known as the Army of Northern Virginia.
U.S. Grant, Lieutenant-General"

The note was carried through the Confederate lines and Lee promptly responded:

"April 7th, 1865.
General: I have received your note of this date. Though not entertaining the opinion you express of the hopelessness of further resistance on the part of the Army of Northern Virginia, I reciprocate your desire to avoid useless effusion of blood, and therefore, before considering your proposition, ask the terms you will offer on condition of its surrender.
R.E. Lee, General."

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/appomatx.htm
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #16
Post by jgnfld   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:43 pm

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All this talk about SCUBA and other gear ignores the fact that the original UDT teams in WW2 often didn't even use a snorkel let alone a tank and regulator (actually rebreathers in the tech of the time). Sometimes (in coral areas) not even fins.

They were engineers, typically recruited from the SeaBees at first, and their usual mission was to clear obstacles.

This sounds familiar in the context of the snippet.

Here is a pic of the gear (in warm water) of the era...

Image
“Naked Warrior.” A UDT man places a charge on an obstacle during training. UDT and other predecessor units often went into action with nothing more than masks, fins, and a knife. Photo courtesy of Tom Hawkins

As for cold water, the original suits were dry suits according to my WW2/Korea UDT-trained SCUBA instructor back in the 60s.
Last edited by jgnfld on Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #16
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:46 pm

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Ha anyone considered the possibility that Corporal Kaillyt really didn't see anything, and that David is just playing with us, to show the nervousness of Rychter's(?) troops, jumping at shadows (and knowing that including something like this early in the book would mean it was going to be snippeted, leading to rampant speculation).

Nah- he'd never do that, would he?
========================

The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #16
Post by jgnfld   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:53 pm

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Nah...a noise like this is the scribal equivalent of Chekhov's Gun.

fallsfromtrees wrote:Ha anyone considered the possibility that Corporal Kaillyt really didn't see anything, and that David is just playing with us, to show the nervousness of Rychter's(?) troops, jumping at shadows (and knowing that including something like this early in the book would mean it was going to be snippeted, leading to rampant speculation).

Nah- he'd never do that, would he?
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #16
Post by dwileye13   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:15 pm

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fallsfromtrees wrote:Ha anyone considered the possibility that Corporal Kaillyt really didn't see anything, and that David is just playing with us, to show the nervousness of Rychter's(?) troops, jumping at shadows (and knowing that including something like this early in the book would mean it was going to be snippeted, leading to rampant speculation).

Nah- he'd never do that, would he?


We will find out what he saw after the BOOM and an after action report. Hopefully it's not black Powder but nitro! BIG BOOM
I am not young enough to know everything!
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #16
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:19 pm

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fallsfromtrees wrote:Ha anyone considered the possibility that Corporal Kaillyt really didn't see anything, and that David is just playing with us, to show the nervousness of Rychter's(?) troops, jumping at shadows (and knowing that including something like this early in the book would mean it was going to be snippeted, leading to rampant speculation).

Nah- he'd never do that, would he?[/quote
jgnfld wrote:Nah...a noise like this is the scribal equivalent of Chekhov's Gun.

Remember that snippets are pre editing. He could throw in something that he planned to have edited out, for just this purpose.
Editor: "David what the hell is this passage?"
RFC: "Oh, I meant to delete that before I sent you the manuscript. Just take it out"
========================

The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #16
Post by n7axw   » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:17 pm

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Randomiser wrote:
n7axw wrote:Hi Lyonheart,

Your scenario does make sense. The last textev does have Alverez on the Fort Sandfish road, but it really doesn't make sense for him to stay on it.

I wonder if he will be able to forage well enough to keep his men fed. The other question is if he will be tipped off to Hanth before running into him.

Don


Actually, the last textev has him 'halfway to Thesmar', as I quoted in my last post. That comes from a summary in the authorial voice so I think we can take it as being fairly well established.

But I agree with Isaac Newton that Lyonheart's suggested rate of progress is far too fast. They don't have a highroad once they turn west, they do have a baggage train to slow them down and if they have to forage as well, that's going to be even slower.


That phrase "half way to Thesmar" does require a bit of interpretation. The Sandfish road does go in the direction of Thesmar. In fact it comes out east of Thesmar at Ft Sandfish, probably about 200 miles, give or take from Thesmar. It doesn't make sense for them to go all the way down the Sandfish road, but it does make sense to go far enough to be clear of DE's blocking positions and then turn toward Dohlar.

I agree that once they turn west, their rate of progress slows down.

Don
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