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Steam

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Steam
Post by AirTech   » Sun May 11, 2014 12:53 am

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chrisd wrote:If, as is clearly demonstrated, Howsmynwerke have the capability to build triplex marine steam engines then their machining capability is well up to the manufacture of a "Diesel" engine such as the Doxford.

These engines ran so slowly as not to need reduction gearboxes and also reversed directly making them eminently suitable for marine propulsion.

Try this link:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKWOi0C-sak

In the final days the Doxford Engine Works actually got their development of the 76J4 engine to run on coal dust once warmed up on oil fuel, getting back to Dr Diesel's original ideas for an Infernal Combustion Engine.

unfortunately British politics caused the premature closure of Doxfords due to an unholy combination of European interference and industry infighting.


The logical extension of the triple expansion marine engines would be building a Shay type rail engine, with a shaft drive to the bogies (and possibly a limited slip differential to reduce rail wear on tight tracks) - the engines themselves could be common between the small ships and rail engines. The major advantage of a piston steam engine, maximum torque at zero speed, makes its use on land really useful for load hauling. The ability to burn wood would be useful, as carrying fuel long distances becomes unnecessary as well making living off the land possible in all but desert environments. Caterpillar tracked steam powered artillery tractors would permit the use of quite large towed guns (although a dragon might be possible too).
Steam powered trucks were common until the 1930's, Foden and Sentinel Steam Wagons being some of the larger brands, they would have been brought in earlier in England but the horsey set managed to get their use restricted (and required a man with a red flag walking ahead of them, restricting their maximum speed).
The major problem with a steam engine system is that it is inherently heavier than an equivalent diesel or petrol engine because of the weight of the boiler and water content (but this can be minimized to a certain extent). The advantages of steam is the ability to swallow poor and variable quality fuels and keep on working reliably (if not optimally) - useful in underdeveloped areas.
The advantage over animal haulage is speed (particularly over long periods) and the ability to shrug off small arms fire (a medium pressure boiler will be impervious to small arms fire due to the thickness of the boiler drum), dead horses are much harder to get running again than a shot up steam engine.
As for armored vehicles, you could start with H.G.Wells Land Ironclads - eminently suitable for steam power.
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Re: Steam
Post by Michael Everett   » Sun May 11, 2014 2:37 am

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Land Ironclads?
Someone's been watching Genesis Survivor Gaiarth...
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Re: Steam
Post by SYED   » Mon May 12, 2014 1:10 am

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does any one remember that back to the future movie involving stealing a train?
Doc created packages that burned so hot that the train went to record breaking speeds, so it that possible in real life, a fuel that burns so hot, it supercharges the engine.
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Re: Steam
Post by Spacekiwi   » Mon May 12, 2014 5:29 am

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If true though, note what happens after though. IIRC, the heat caused problems, such as the boiler cracking. considering they only rode for a short time, so a supercharger tha kills your vehicle isnt wanted.

SYED wrote:does any one remember that back to the future movie involving stealing a train?
Doc created packages that burned so hot that the train went to record breaking speeds, so it that possible in real life, a fuel that burns so hot, it supercharges the engine.
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Re: Steam
Post by Tenshinai   » Mon May 12, 2014 7:17 am

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SYED wrote:does any one remember that back to the future movie involving stealing a train?
Doc created packages that burned so hot that the train went to record breaking speeds, so it that possible in real life, a fuel that burns so hot, it supercharges the engine.


Ugh... :?

No, it does NOT work that way.

You could run a steam engine on thermite and it wouldn´t matter, because more heat only means you heat up the boiler faster, the boiler pressure limit will be reached at the same time regardless what fuel you use or how how you can get it burning.

In theory you might be able to go from cold start to working pressure faster by applying more heat.

However, that will damage the firebox, the armature and may damage the boiler because of parts expanding too quickly.

There´s also the problem that any localised heat source of extreme level is going to burn through the floor of the firebox.

Spacekiwi wrote:If true though, note what happens after though. IIRC, the heat caused problems, such as the boiler cracking. considering they only rode for a short time, so a supercharger tha kills your vehicle isnt wanted.


Oh dear, 2 people thinking it could actually be true. :cry:
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Re: Steam
Post by AirTech   » Mon May 12, 2014 7:20 am

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SYED wrote:does any one remember that back to the future movie involving stealing a train?
Doc created packages that burned so hot that the train went to record breaking speeds, so it that possible in real life, a fuel that burns so hot, it supercharges the engine.

Considering that English steam ran north of a 100 miles an hour without anything magical happening, other than good engineering, railroads definitely have a future. Steam powered cars held land speed records for a number of years in the early 1900's (Stanley Steamer - 127 mph), I think Doc Brown lacked a little engineering expertise....
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Re: Steam
Post by AirTech   » Mon May 12, 2014 7:23 am

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Michael Everett wrote:Land Ironclads?
Someone's been watching Genesis Survivor Gaiarth...

Nope. H.G.Wells fan from way back (also read most of Jules Verne's stuff). Also a modeller (http://www.currell.net/models/ironclad.htm).
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Re: Steam
Post by AirTech   » Mon May 12, 2014 8:47 am

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SYED wrote:I had this idea that there could be steam tank, but people said it would not be practicle. I had this idea as mainland has epic level roads, so a tank could be possible, using these great roads to cause alot of trouble. If tanks are out of the question, are the roads good enough to allow a steam engine to run on it. SUre they would need to have some steering capability, but if the roads are as good as they say, they could possibly hold heavy loads like steam engines and carriges. THeir steam canl boats will speed up river travel, but if they can make the steam road vehicles, they could greatly speed up their logistics.


A steam tank is possible, if unpleasant to drive due to heat, and a wheeled cross country vehicle would have significant shock value. Big Lizzie didn't need roads (and in fact was used to clear land), and, as can be seen by the attached photo's, could have been steam powered rather than crude oil diesel powered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Big_L ... ctoria.jpg
http://www.picturevictoria.vic.gov.au/s ... /13777.jpg
http://www.picturevictoria.vic.gov.au/s ... /14492.jpg
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Re: Steam
Post by Tenshinai   » Mon May 12, 2014 10:29 am

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AirTech wrote:Nope. H.G.Wells fan from way back (also read most of Jules Verne's stuff). Also a modeller (http://www.currell.net/models/ironclad.htm).


Problem is that artillery from the 15th century can make big holes in any level of armouring you can afford the weight penalty for while using steam engines.

The monster in the picture would likely have great difficulties getting anywhere away from roads.
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Re: Steam
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon May 12, 2014 10:40 am

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Tenshinai wrote:The monster in the picture would likely have great difficulties getting anywhere away from roads.


Nope, that's the ultimate off-road machine. The only thing better off-road than those "walking wheels" -- whatever they're properly called -- is a continuous belt/tread such as a snow-mobile or caterpillar tractor uses.
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