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Speculation on the next in the Safehold series

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by n7axw   » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:34 pm

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Dauntless wrote:Rastar's sacrifice to hold the gate so Prince Roger could take the palace.

Andreas Venzouls and Jamie Candles' last stands to buy Honor enough time to escape Tepes.

heck in safehold you have the sacrifice of the entire decoy fleet in OAR so that the colony expedition can escape. More recently in HFQ we have Dreadnought's fight against most of the dolhar navy.

we could go on but the point is made


I wasn't saying that there have been no sacrifices. My point is not that Merlin wouldn't give himself for the cause. It is rather that he wouldn't choose that deliberately as a way to end himself. The point that I was making was, "no, I don't think that Merlin is so badly burdened by guilt and depression that he would deleberately place himself in harms way as a sacrifice to deal with that guilt. I think that his support system is capable of carrying him through that."

All warriors take risks, but most at least, prefer to survive. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. In the current Safehold context there is very little that can harm Merlin. But that will not always be true. Eventually tech on Safehold will be able to destroy him. And as we get toward the end of the story, there will be the Gbaba. At that point Merlin will be taking the same risks all other warriors take. He might come back... or not.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by Randomiser   » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:51 am

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As far as I can see all the sacrifices mentioned are made to protect the main character/further his or her aims. So the examples given are beside the point. I don't recollect anywhere the main character sacrificed him/herself for the cause in any of RFC's books and I don't see Merlin deliberately shutting himself down now, or even getting killed. There is going to be a very big character turnover between this arc and the succeeding one as it is without killing off the main character who ties everything together.

BTW it just occurred to me that the OBS may be a damp squib after all. Surely, given, what is it, sixteen or seventeen years of peace, to devote thought and resources to the problem, OWL and Nahrman will be able to build something to take it down before the promised 'Return'?
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by Peter2   » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:27 am

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Randomiser wrote:
[snip]

BTW it just occurred to me that the OBS may be a damp squib after all. Surely, given, what is it, sixteen or seventeen years of peace, to devote thought and resources to the problem, OWL and Nahrman will be able to build something to take it down before the promised 'Return'?


I guess that’s possible, but I don’t think we have enough information to call it a probability. The last textev I remember about trying to investigate the OBS was that Merlin/Owl’s stealthiest probes were detected and knocked out long before reaching the point at which they could gain any useful data. A logical deduction from that is that the sensor technology in the OBS is substantially better that anything that Merlin/Owl/Nahrman has access to. Improvements in stealth and probably also in sensor technologies would therefore be needed, which would require somebody to make them, and the question is who. Merlin and Owl have shown no signs of any ability to carry out original research, and nobody else alive has any grounding in electronics.
.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by CRC   » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:03 pm

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cnrd22 wrote:Given that the next book is the last in the current arc with the next arc starting a few decades later, I see the following:

- the Church is on the verge of losing the war (the Harchong army is defeated/rebels etc), the allies enter the Temple states and close toward Zion

- the unhinged Clyntahn tries to assume supreme command, maybe kills Magwair and Trynair but Duchairn escapes somehow

- Aivah is transported to Zion and dies in a final battle/sacrifice attack taking Clyntahn (and maybe the Inquisition leadership) out

- Duchairn emerges and using his popularity and network takes charge, sues for peace and agrees to reform the Inquisition etc

- a peace like the Augsburg one in the mid 1500's where each state has the right to choose its religion (Temple or the reformed), some toleration etc

- behind the scenes the various bad guys of the next arc accept this for now to regroup and get even with Charis in tech but prepare to strike when the time is right (for example when the Archangels return supposing some of such know about that...)


My recollection of RFC's interview is that there are two more books in this arc, not one. But I have slept since then...
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by dobriennm   » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:22 pm

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Only one more book in series - see below

From Thread: Weber's 2015 National Book Festival Talk Up
dobriennm wrote:David Weber's 2015 National Book Festival talk is now up at

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpAGnumt6iV6kxToAhObqYJlVV1og9BMt



This talk was mentioned by someone else on this forum and I wasn't sure anyone had posted that it was available.

It talks a lot about the Honor Harrington series, but also mentions the Safehold series, in particular, how there is one more book after HFQ to complete the present story arc. It also mentions that after the 20 year "gap" to the next Safehold story arc, everyone will have steam powered economies with the implication that the fight will be harder/bloodier[MY interpretation].

It's about 45 minutes, but for those of us who haven't managed to get to one of the Cons to see David, it's interesting and informative to watch.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by n7axw   » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:39 pm

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Peter2 wrote:
Randomiser wrote:
[snip]

BTW it just occurred to me that the OBS may be a damp squib after all. Surely, given, what is it, sixteen or seventeen years of peace, to devote thought and resources to the problem, OWL and Nahrman will be able to build something to take it down before the promised 'Return'?


I guess that’s possible, but I don’t think we have enough information to call it a probability. The last textev I remember about trying to investigate the OBS was that Merlin/Owl’s stealthiest probes were detected and knocked out long before reaching the point at which they could gain any useful data. A logical deduction from that is that the sensor technology in the OBS is substantially better that anything that Merlin/Owl/Nahrman has access to. Improvements in stealth and probably also in sensor technologies would therefore be needed, which would require somebody to make them, and the question is who. Merlin and Owl have shown no signs of any ability to carry out original research, and nobody else alive has any grounding in electronics.
.


It wasn't that the sensor tech available to Merlin was inferior to that of the OBS. It was rather that they did not have weapons available with the ability to penetrate the OBS's passive scanners and area defense networks. No comment is made about the possibility of being able to come up with something in the future.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by Randomiser   » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:18 pm

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Peter2 wrote:
Randomiser wrote:
[snip]

BTW it just occurred to me that the OBS may be a damp squib after all. Surely, given, what is it, sixteen or seventeen years of peace, to devote thought and resources to the problem, OWL and Nahrman will be able to build something to take it down before the promised 'Return'?


I guess that’s possible, but I don’t think we have enough information to call it a probability. The last textev I remember about trying to investigate the OBS was that Merlin/Owl’s stealthiest probes were detected and knocked out long before reaching the point at which they could gain any useful data. A logical deduction from that is that the sensor technology in the OBS is substantially better that anything that Merlin/Owl/Nahrman has access to. Improvements in stealth and probably also in sensor technologies would therefore be needed, which would require somebody to make them, and the question is who. Merlin and Owl have shown no signs of any ability to carry out original research, and nobody else alive has any grounding in electronics.
.


They don't necessarily need better stealth, just a platform with better survivability and bigger 'guns' than the remote previously used; something designed for combat rather than stealthy reconnaisance perhaps, or maybe many more of them, or who knows what? I find it hard to believe that a TF dreadnought or two couldn't take down a relatively fixed orbital planetary bombardment system. In that sense the Good Guys(tm) don't need to do original research, just some engineering to find a way of applying known principles to this situation. (A bit like building a PICA without the ten day limit) Perhaps 'surely' in my previous post was a mite strong, but it has to be within the bounds of reasonable possibility. Especially given how limited OWL was at the time it was asked about tackling the OBS.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by n7axw   » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:17 pm

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Randomiser wrote:
They don't necessarily need better stealth, just a platform with better survivability and bigger 'guns' than the remote previously used; something designed for combat rather than stealthy reconnaisance perhaps, or maybe many more of them, or who knows what? I find it hard to believe that a TF dreadnought or two couldn't take down a relatively fixed orbital planetary bombardment system. In that sense the Good Guys(tm) don't need to do original research, just some engineering to find a way of applying known principles to this situation. (A bit like building a PICA without the ten day limit) Perhaps 'surely' in my previous post was a mite strong, but it has to be within the bounds of reasonable possibility. Especially given how limited OWL was at the time it was asked about tackling the OBS.


Yeah. A couple of months devoted to the problem in compressed time now that he's self aware could make a real difference in defining the perameters of the problem along with coming up with an inventory of resources needed to deal with it.

When I looked at that paragraph in OAR where Owl tells Merlin that nothing he has on hand can penetrate the OBS's defenses, there was nothing that precluded a future solution--only that it couldn't be done at that moment in time.

Then, too, consider that Owl is a tactical AI. That could put him a leg up on finding a solution.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by n7axw   » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:21 pm

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CRC wrote:
cnrd22 wrote:Given that the next book is the last in the current arc with the next arc starting a few decades later, I see the following:

- the Church is on the verge of losing the war (the Harchong army is defeated/rebels etc), the allies enter the Temple states and close toward Zion

- the unhinged Clyntahn tries to assume supreme command, maybe kills Magwair and Trynair but Duchairn escapes somehow

- Aivah is transported to Zion and dies in a final battle/sacrifice attack taking Clyntahn (and maybe the Inquisition leadership) out

- Duchairn emerges and using his popularity and network takes charge, sues for peace and agrees to reform the Inquisition etc

- a peace like the Augsburg one in the mid 1500's where each state has the right to choose its religion (Temple or the reformed), some toleration etc

- behind the scenes the various bad guys of the next arc accept this for now to regroup and get even with Charis in tech but prepare to strike when the time is right (for example when the Archangels return supposing some of such know about that...)


My recollection of RFC's interview is that there are two more books in this arc, not one. But I have slept since then...



One of those two books would be HFQ...

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by evilauthor   » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:00 am

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n7axw wrote:Yeah. A couple of months devoted to the problem in compressed time now that he's self aware could make a real difference in defining the perameters of the problem along with coming up with an inventory of resources needed to deal with it.


The problem with this of course is that most of OWL's processing power is already tied up monitoring everything going on on Safehold.

I suppose there's nothing stopping OWL from "expanding" by building additional computers to expand his processing capacity. But I suspect if he did so, all that expanded capacity would just go to doing more monitoring and analysis of current events on Safehold instead of working on the OBS issue.

And of course, someone has to come up with the idea of building additional "OWLs"...
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