ColonialBoy wrote:Hi John964,
The reason I mentioned the Virginia with the Gloire and Warrior was because of her composite wood/iron armor, not the fact all had steam engines, however poorly the Virginia's worked. I should have made the armor aspect more clear.
The USS Galena was also steam powered, and survived the war, if not as an ironclad. The CSS Virginia also only saw a single action, IIRC...
As for the confederate cotton-clad gunboats, they used cotton in lieu of iron, not as a preferred or superior material. Otherwise I missed all the cotton-clad warships built around the world, following the confederate example.
Best wishes to all,
L
I'm new to this forum, so I don't know what has/hasn't been discussed and/or disproved, but IS steam power proscribed/detectable by the Rakuria sensor? I don't recall seeing that stated explicitly in any of the books (I originally thought it had been, but then realized that I was mistakenly remembering something from a similar series of books written by John Ringo).
Also a small info enhancement: the CSS Virginia used both the engine and the hull of the frigate USS Merrimack (& the drive train, & anything else the Feds left behind when the Merrimack sank). It is correct that the Virginia only fought once - after the six hour slugfest, she withdrew (due to a combination of reasons). Her smokestack (and other vulnerable parts of the ship) had been shot to pieces, she was low on ammo and powder, and (most importantly) the tide was running out. The CSS Virginia drew a lot more water than the USS Monitor (22' vs 10'). Afterwards, she was put into drydock to repair damages, and try to make changes that would allow it to deal with the new threat that the Monitor represented. Per Wikipedia, she sailed again a couple of times, but the Federal ships present refused combat. Not long afterwards, Federal forces retook the Norfolk shipyards, and the rebels were forced to destroy her to prevent her capture.
A mistake that her commander made (that I don't see Charisian admirals repeating) is that after hours of combat showed that the Monitor and the Virginia weren't capable of destroying each other, he should have ignored the Monitor, and gone back to the more important task of destroying the ships of the Federal blockade. The Federal blockade of the Confederacy was a major factor in her defeat. Similarly, the British blockade was a major factor in Germany's defeat in WW1 (and seems to be doing pretty well against the GoF forces on the planet SafeHold).
Hi Colonial boy,
(Sounds like a possible Michael Sharra short story fan, IIRC) :-)
It's going to be a while for blockade breaking.
Developing a blockade breaker has yet to cross the mind of the Go4, in part because the ICE 'blockade' is rather distant from the temple or the Harchong empire.
That's going to change with the widespread use of explosive shells in 895 YoG.
The implication from AMF was that only 5 month's production were needed to provide shells for every ICN ship; then roughly a hundred ships (with new construction) averaging close to 50 guns with 40 shells each for 200,000.
I suspect the newly captured (NGS or IHN and possibly IDN?)) or allied ships (Tarot's) will be checked and only the best kept, the merchant conversions being most likely to be sold or used as troop transports. This will still double the size of the ICN, and may take some time (perhaps up to a year) to replace the artillery, which will also allow some time to recruit the needed crews.
Figuring the huge firepower increase explosive shells provide the ICN is rather difficult. If one were to compare the average hole from solid shot to the 3' diameter minimum of explosive shells would mean a single volley of explosive shells has greater effect than 40 with solid shot. While 1 salvo did destroy an NG ship, it may be the average required is closer to five.
Historically, there were very few incidents of wooden ships using explosive shells to be a guide, but the impact could mean the ICN might more comfortably engage at odds of perhaps as bad as 1-4, making Lock Island's desperate attack probably unique, but strongly underlines the ICN's potential firepower superiority.
Which won't be lost on anyone having to build that third temple fleet... :-)
Regarding the CSS Virginia's two day career of epoch making history, no problem here with your addendum.
Ymchang001's excellent points regarding how the proscriptions may be framed to prevent any clues to any bold power monger or experimenter may be one reason we've never read them.
How many over 9 centuries might be tempted, thinking he might claim the power of the universe, or perhaps just the 'angels; if he simply tried what they forbade; having removed himself from the church's attention, perhaps by seclusion in a very remote location, with all he needed etc.
Given human nature, it'd be surprising if someone or several persons haven't already tried such a thing a few times, if the proscriptions are that clear cut or precise.
The proscription might simply forbid anything having to do with heating water to make something else move or revolve in any fashion, ie to do 'work' of any kind; rather than describing steam or vacuum for example.
Perhaps we should have a contest on what the proscription might say, and how it might be voided?
Regarding the Rakurai detector limitations; it seems another well made point, but not the first; and John964's example is perhaps just another proof in this continuing debate. I imagine Merlin will feel stupid for being too careful, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Rakurai detectors easily picked up spark plugs, etc.
If the Rakurai have their own SNARC's to check out potential 'hot spots', they might be actively looking for steam power etc, while Merlin and his recon skimmers etc are ignored as being within accepted archangel behavior.
As for Mike Turcotte's suggestions regarding Merlin's potential unrestricted powers, DW is too good a story writer to sink to such "deus ex machina" type drivel.
Quite aside from the fact that his purpose; to make people think, limits his power to herd self aware humans in his preferred direction rather considerably, if it weren't for his [her] humanity, her own personality, her own moral code; prevents that as well.
There is considerable textev already regarding Merlin's refusal to simply remove potentially troublesome humans, and that was when he was alone, unable to discuss anything with anybody.
Now he [she] has dozens of friends to help curb any such thoughts, let alone actions.
Best wishes to all,
L
